TSA's random police "open & look" checks airline religious catering trucks exemption
Jul 18, 2019, 3:56 am
#16
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Kosher and Halal meals have very strict religious-based preparation requirements. When such meals are prepared for airlines at off-airport facilities, they are sealed in trays, which are then locked in carts.
The food trays are inspected by private security during preparation, then sealed.
The carts are then placed on trucks for transport to the aircraft.
What OP is complaining about is that TSA wants to open up the carts and inspect the food trays inside, when the truck reaches the gate to the airport's secure area, and they have been forbidden to do so because such an inspection would violate the Kosher and Halal requirements of the meals, desecrating them.
My own concern, beyond the religious aspects, is that unqualified personnel might be opening up sealed trays of food in an unsanitary environment to inspect something that has already been inspected by security personnel at its source before being sealed for transport.
Would this same uproar happen if it were blessed communion wafers and wine that TSA wanted to open and inspect? Of how about breast milk, which doesn't have the religious requirements but still has a sanitary issue - would there be an uproar if unqualified TSA personnel wanted to open containers of breast milk to "inspect" them under unsanitary conditions? I think so, since it already has.
If there is suspicion that the food may have been tampered with on route, or had prohibited items hidden in the trays or carts or trucks, then the focus needs to be on the source and on the procedures for sealing the trucks at the source for the trip to the secure area. Religious issues aside, opening at entry under unsanitary conditions concerns me whether the meals are Kosher, Halal, or not - I don't want my food taken out at an airport gate and tossed around by the filthy blue-gloved paws of some random FAM or TSO. Look what they do to luggage - you really want to trust anyone's food to THAT?
I also take great offense to anyone putting the word rights in quotes as if the word were a joke or a sneer. Rights and freedoms are the cornerstone of America, protected against government infringement and abuse by the Constitution; there is nothing, absolutely nothing, that supersede them, not even the law, not even "safety" and "security", no matter how paranoid the government might be, no matter how many bad people might be targeting us, no matter how much hatred there might be for foreigners or religious minorities.
Jul 18, 2019, 4:01 am
#17
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What OP is complaining about is that TSA wants to open up the carts and inspect the food trays inside, when the truck reaches the gate to the airport's secure area, and they have been forbidden to do so because such an inspection would violate the Kosher and Halal requirements of the meals, desecrating them.
My own concern, beyond the religious aspects, is that unqualified personnel might be opening up sealed trays of food in an unsanitary environment to inspect something that has already been inspected by security personnel at its source before being sealed for transport.
My own concern, beyond the religious aspects, is that unqualified personnel might be opening up sealed trays of food in an unsanitary environment to inspect something that has already been inspected by security personnel at its source before being sealed for transport.
Last December my UA flight out of IAD departed 4 hours late because our original aircraft went MX, and by the time they found a new aircraft, it was 1am. The new food sat outside the security perimeter for an hour, awaiting a TSA security check. Why should religiously blessed foods be exempt?
Jul 18, 2019, 4:36 am
#18
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This is a gaping security hole, and I really don't care why the religious food is exempt from TSA inspection. It shouldn't be.
Last December my UA flight out of IAD departed 4 hours late because our original aircraft went MX, and by the time they found a new aircraft, it was 1am. The new food sat outside the security perimeter for an hour, awaiting a TSA security check. Why should religiously blessed foods be exempt?
Last December my UA flight out of IAD departed 4 hours late because our original aircraft went MX, and by the time they found a new aircraft, it was 1am. The new food sat outside the security perimeter for an hour, awaiting a TSA security check. Why should religiously blessed foods be exempt?
Personally, I would trust Emirates’ or El Al’s security to be more vested in protecting their own planes in the US more than I would trust TSA to do so.
Since when does inspecting/checking out a kosher or halal meal render the kosher or halal meal into being non-kosher/non-halal?
I can speak a bit to security measures used when it comes to hosting foreign dignitaries with religious dietary restrictions, and I’ve never heard of any of them or their aides saying their certified religious-compliant food can only be monitored/inspected by co-religionists working security or it will be “desecrated”.
Last edited by GUWonder; Jul 18, 2019 at 5:41 am
Jul 18, 2019, 5:45 am
#19
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To be honest, after looking at what the OP has been claiming and talking about for the last X years, I'm inclined to take anything he says with a grain of salt. I'm sure the OP is qualified to comment on policing matters (from a US policing context), but I also think OP doesn't understand risk management at all. I'm pretty sure he doesn't understand the difference between the two.
Last edited by JamesBigglesworth; Jul 18, 2019 at 6:06 am Reason: removing some phrasing that could be mis-read as making it a personal attack
Jul 18, 2019, 6:01 am
#20
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Since when does inspecting/checking out a kosher or halal meal render the kosher or halal meal into being non-kosher/non-halal?
I can speak a bit to security measures used when it comes to hosting foreign dignitaries with religious dietary restrictions, and I’ve never heard of any of them or their aides saying their certified religious-compliant food can only be monitored/inspected by co-religionists working security or it will be “desecrated”
I can speak a bit to security measures used when it comes to hosting foreign dignitaries with religious dietary restrictions, and I’ve never heard of any of them or their aides saying their certified religious-compliant food can only be monitored/inspected by co-religionists working security or it will be “desecrated”
Jul 18, 2019, 6:11 am
#21
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The TSA offends a lot of people, including those who may or may not limit themselves to food that meets religious dietary restrictions. And so I’m not going to buy into any lazy, prejudicial canard that the government is all about ethnic/religious minority appeasement at airports when the TSA and the rest of DHS were major whiners against attempts to further limit profiling against ethnic and religious minorities too.
Jul 18, 2019, 6:27 am
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Is it a hole though? It *is* inspected. Is there *any* indication the inspections are below the standard TSA requires or deploys? Is there *any* indication of third party action to circumvent the current security process? Have *any* planes from Middle Eastern airlines (or elsewhere) fallen from the sky in the last 100 years due to an exploding samosa prepped in the US?
Jul 18, 2019, 6:58 am
#23
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Is it a hole though? It *is* inspected. Is there *any* indication the inspections are below the standard TSA requires or deploys? Is there *any* indication of third party action to circumvent the current security process? Have *any* planes from Middle Eastern airlines (or elsewhere) fallen from the sky in the last 100 years due to an exploding samosa prepped in the US?
Jul 18, 2019, 7:34 am
#24
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TSA offends me by the very nature of their passenger screening methods. I doubt I am the only person offended by TSA screening practices.
I suspect that catering inspections fall under the TSA's Know Shipper program or a similar program.
My question would be how are these shippers vetted, how often are they inspected, and like questions?
I don't think anything being loaded on an airplane should be exempt from inspection, routine, spot, or otherwise, cargo or person. TSA's focus on passengers and not insider threats is concerning based on things I have observed at airports.
I suspect that catering inspections fall under the TSA's Know Shipper program or a similar program.
Known Shipper Management System
Through the Known Shipper Management System, TSA identifies and approves the known shipper status for qualified shippers in the U.S. Carriers (indirect air carriers and air carriers) must comply with a range of specific security requirements to qualify their clients as known shippers. Shippers interested in transporting goods by air may contact their transportation service provider and request to become a known shipper. For additional information regarding the Known Shipper Management System, [email protected]?subject=Know...20 Management.
I don't think anything being loaded on an airplane should be exempt from inspection, routine, spot, or otherwise, cargo or person. TSA's focus on passengers and not insider threats is concerning based on things I have observed at airports.
Jul 18, 2019, 8:29 am
#25
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In the security business, you either rely on 100% inspection, or if that is too onerous (and it often is), you target selectively based on experience, with a dash of random thrown in, just to keep from being predictable. If you predictably wall off a portion of the target universe, that walled off portion becomes vulnerable.
100% security is a pipe-dream unless and until wiling to live like a caged animal in a world akin to full-time solitary confinement, and even then there would still be risks of various sorts. Even no POTUS has a 100% security guarantee, and the resources dedicated to protecting just that one figure is perhaps the highest allocation of resources per protected person that there has ever been in our lifetime; and such resource allocation per protected person is not scalable to protect everyone who may be on a plane and subject to TSA-approved parties using relatively privileged access to potentially penetrate security with contraband explosives or weapons for malicious purposes.
Jul 18, 2019, 9:02 am
#26
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If I was a bad guy and wanted to create an atmosphere of terror I think a biological weapon unleashed in a major city would be the way to go. If the biological could be transmitted person to person with a long enough incubation period that natural disbursement occurred the whole nation or world could be impacted. Slow could well me more effective than an immediate action. Ebola comes to mind. No food trucks, baggage, shipped goods or anything else. TSA would be out of business in days.
Jul 18, 2019, 9:03 am
#27
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“Target selectively” as the only supplement to general screening is generally way less effective than a lot of true random selections as the supplement, and that is because a recognizable “target selectively” approach is far easier to work around for security penetration purposes than a high frequency of “random selections”.
100% security is a pipe-dream unless and until wiling to live like a caged animal in a world akin to full-time solitary confinement, and even then there would still be risks of various sorts. Even no POTUS has a 100% security guarantee, and the resources dedicated to protecting just that one figure is perhaps the highest allocation of resources per protected person that there has ever been in our lifetime; and such resource allocation per protected person is not scalable to protect everyone who may be on a plane and subject to TSA-approved parties using relatively privileged access to potentially penetrate security with contraband explosives or weapons for malicious purposes.
I'm pre-check on most of the airlines I fly. Every so often in the pre-check line, I get diverted from the WTMD to the full body scan machine. Every so often, I'm selected to have my carry on randomly tested for explosives. TSA clearly believe in random security enhancements over the wing - why not under the wing?
Jul 18, 2019, 9:07 am
#28
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I'm not advocating for 100% security. I just think that TSA is setting themselves up for failure if they don't open up catering trucks on a random basis - even those loaded by trusted shippers - to keep everyone on their toes.
I'm pre-check on most of the airlines I fly. Every so often in the pre-check line, I get diverted from the WTMD to the full body scan machine. Every so often, I'm selected to have my carry on randomly tested for explosives. They clearly believe in random security enhancements over the wing - why not under the wing?
I'm pre-check on most of the airlines I fly. Every so often in the pre-check line, I get diverted from the WTMD to the full body scan machine. Every so often, I'm selected to have my carry on randomly tested for explosives. They clearly believe in random security enhancements over the wing - why not under the wing?
Jul 18, 2019, 9:13 am
#29
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TSA's response: "[still] an ongoing investigation [since September 26, 2017]...[we] do not do any random inspections of food trucks":
Jul 18, 2019, 9:40 am
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