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TSA allowing illegal migrants to fly without proper documents

TSA allowing illegal migrants to fly without proper documents

Old Jun 6, 19, 9:26 am
  #1  
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TSA allowing illegal migrants to fly without proper documents

TSA Violating Rules

The federal agency tasked with overseeing security at transportation hubs has been violating its own policy by allowing migrants who have been released from federal custody onto flights despite not having required documents, according to several Department of Homeland Security officials.
So safety really isn't Job #1 at TSA!

Why should I have to produce ID when I am a known traveler by both the airline I use and by TSA due to collected history?

Something is wrong with this picture!
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Old Jun 6, 19, 12:08 pm
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Originally Posted by Boggie Dog View Post
So safety really isn't Job #1 at TSA!

Why should I have to produce ID when I am a known traveler by both the airline I use and by TSA due to collected history?

Something is wrong with this picture!
Your first sentence assumes that having ID has anything to do with airplane safety. It doesn't.

The thing wrong is that they require you to show ID not that they don't require it from others. Don't endorse a "it's good so long as everyone gets violated" framing.
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Old Jun 6, 19, 12:41 pm
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Most will use their passports or national ID cards from wherever they're from. The rag that is the Washington Examiner only gave a list of some IDs that a US citizen would use. There's no mention of what foreign travelers use when traveling on domestic flights.
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Old Jun 6, 19, 1:42 pm
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Originally Posted by saizai View Post
Your first sentence assumes that having ID has anything to do with airplane safety. It doesn't.

The thing wrong is that they require you to show ID not that they don't require it from others. Don't endorse a "it's good so long as everyone gets violated" framing.
I don't think ID matters a bit but TSA has stated that ID Matters. So it must be true!

The question is why doesn't ID Matter all the time? Either it does or doesn't. Can't have it both ways TSA!

Originally Posted by catocony View Post
Most will use their passports or national ID cards from wherever they're from. The rag that is the Washington Examiner only gave a list of some IDs that a US citizen would use. There's no mention of what foreign travelers use when traveling on domestic flights.
From TSA:

Acceptable ID for TSA

Identification

Adult passengers 18 and over must show valid identification at the airport checkpoint in order to travel.Driver's licenses or other state photo identity cards issued by Department of Motor Vehicles (or equivalent)
  • U.S. passport
  • U.S. passport card
  • DHS trusted traveler cards (Global Entry, NEXUS, SENTRI, FAST)
  • U.S. Department of Defense ID, including IDs issued to dependents
  • Permanent resident card
  • Border crossing card
  • DHS-designated enhanced driver's license
  • Federally recognized, tribal-issued photo ID
  • HSPD-12 PIV card
  • Foreign government-issued passport
  • Canadian provincial driver's license or Indian and Northern Affairs Canada card
  • Transportation worker identification credential
  • U.S. Citizenship and Immigration Services Employment Authorization Card (I-766)
  • U.S. Merchant Mariner Credential

Last edited by TWA884; Jun 6, 19 at 2:14 pm Reason: Merge consecutive posts by the same member; please use the multi-quote function. Thank you.
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Old Jun 6, 19, 8:00 pm
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Originally Posted by Boggie Dog View Post
I don't think ID matters a bit but TSA has stated that ID Matters. So it must be true!

The question is why doesn't ID Matter all the time? Either it does or doesn't. Can't have it both ways TSA!
People who have lost/had ID stolen travel domestically by air regularly. They do a more detailed screening, but they're not prohibited from flying.
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Old Jun 6, 19, 8:13 pm
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Originally Posted by Boggie Dog View Post
I don't think ID matters a bit but TSA has stated that ID Matters. So it must be true!

The question is why doesn't ID Matter all the time? Either it does or doesn't. Can't have it both ways TSA!



From TSA:

Acceptable ID for TSA

Identification

Adult passengers 18 and over must show valid identification at the airport checkpoint in order to travel.Driver's licenses or other state photo identity cards issued by Department of Motor Vehicles (or equivalent)
  • U.S. passport
  • U.S. passport card
  • DHS trusted traveler cards (Global Entry, NEXUS, SENTRI, FAST)
  • U.S. Department of Defense ID, including IDs issued to dependents
  • Permanent resident card
  • Border crossing card
  • DHS-designated enhanced driver's license
  • Federally recognized, tribal-issued photo ID
  • HSPD-12 PIV card
  • Foreign government-issued passport
  • Canadian provincial driver's license or Indian and Northern Affairs Canada card
  • Transportation worker identification credential
  • U.S. Citizenship and Immigration Services Employment Authorization Card (I-766)
  • U.S. Merchant Mariner Credential
It would be good if you had copied the entire section into the post rather than a selective part. TSA routinely clears people who lack valid ID, it simply goes through an in depth verification process and some additional screening. Don't fall into the trap set by the Examiner.

In the event you arrive at the airport without valid identification, because it is lost or at home, you may still be allowed to fly. The TSA officer may ask you to complete an identity verification process which includes collecting information such as your name, current address, and other personal information to confirm your identity. If your identity is confirmed, you will be allowed to enter the screening checkpoint. You will be subject to additional screening, to include a patdown and screening of carry-on property.

You will not be allowed to enter the security checkpoint if your identity cannot be confirmed, you chose to not provide proper identification or you decline to cooperate with the identity verification process.
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Old Jun 6, 19, 9:41 pm
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I think most of us are familiar with the above verbiage.

What's not clear is how TSA verifies the paperless individual's identity. How do you confirm the name, birth date, home address (outside the US), etc. I suspect the average undocumented immigrants won't have a Costco card with their name, address, photo and birth date - or any other legitimate form of ID that a TSO would recognize.

Bottom line is they make do with all that was ever actually necessary for aviation security, just like folks everywhere else in the world do: they hassle the pax and then verify that the pax and his/her belongings don't include any physical threats to aviation security and they let them through.
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Old Jun 7, 19, 12:56 am
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Originally Posted by chollie View Post
What's not clear is how TSA verifies the paperless individual's identity. How do you confirm the name, birth date, home address (outside the US), etc. I suspect the average undocumented immigrants won't have a Costco card with their name, address, photo and birth date - or any other legitimate form of ID that a TSO would recognize.
As stated in the article, TSA is accepting an I-862 (notice to appear in court) as ID. These do not have a photo so it could be anyone presenting it. Of course these people have no US credit history, so the usual method of asking questions from a credit report doesn't work either.

The only security-related purpose of checking IDs is to enforce the no-fly list, and I highly doubt that any refugees coming in from the southern border are going to be on that list, so I don't think this is too much of a concern. Revenue protection for the airlines is their problem, not the government's.
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Old Jun 7, 19, 7:42 am
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Originally Posted by Often1 View Post
It would be good if you had copied the entire section into the post rather than a selective part. TSA routinely clears people who lack valid ID, it simply goes through an in depth verification process and some additional screening. Don't fall into the trap set by the Examiner.

In the event you arrive at the airport without valid identification, because it is lost or at home, you may still be allowed to fly. The TSA officer may ask you to complete an identity verification process which includes collecting information such as your name, current address, and other personal information to confirm your identity. If your identity is confirmed, you will be allowed to enter the screening checkpoint. You will be subject to additional screening, to include a patdown and screening of carry-on property.

You will not be allowed to enter the security checkpoint if your identity cannot be confirmed, you chose to not provide proper identification or you decline to cooperate with the identity verification process.
How does TSA vet an unknown person who has no current address or other available personal information? If people can't see the gaping hole in this process then working in any security field is probably ill advised.

So TSA proves in its actions that ID is not needed for security screening. An inspection for not having prohibited items is all that is actually required.

Originally Posted by cbn42 View Post
As stated in the article, TSA is accepting an I-862 (notice to appear in court) as ID. These do not have a photo so it could be anyone presenting it. Of course these people have no US credit history, so the usual method of asking questions from a credit report doesn't work either.

The only security-related purpose of checking IDs is to enforce the no-fly list, and I highly doubt that any refugees coming in from the southern border are going to be on that list, so I don't think this is too much of a concern. Revenue protection for the airlines is their problem, not the government's.
How does TSA's checking ID help enforce the no-fly list when TSA does not directly compare ID to any database?
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Old Jun 7, 19, 7:46 am
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Originally Posted by Boggie Dog View Post
How does TSA vet an unknown person who has no current address or other available personal information? If people can't see the gaping hole in this process then working in any security field is probably ill advised.

So TSA proves in its actions that ID is not needed for security screening. An inspection for not having prohibited items is all that is actually required.



How does TSA's checking ID help enforce the no-fly list when TSA does not directly compare ID to any database?
This is another question that TSA as never been able to answer.
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Last edited by petaluma1; Jun 7, 19 at 8:08 am
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Old Jun 7, 19, 8:53 am
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Originally Posted by cbn42 View Post
As stated in the article, TSA is accepting an I-862 (notice to appear in court) as ID. These do not have a photo so it could be anyone presenting it. Of course these people have no US credit history, so the usual method of asking questions from a credit report doesn't work either.

The only security-related purpose of checking IDs is to enforce the no-fly list, and I highly doubt that any refugees coming in from the southern border are going to be on that list, so I don't think this is too much of a concern. Revenue protection for the airlines is their problem, not the government's.
This makes me feel very unsafe.

TSA does not play 'probabilities'. They constantly remind us that it's important to check genitals and breast milk and medicines and breast cancer survivors because it only takes one time and you just never know. They also stress the importance of an ID check for security reasons that they have never disclosed, because no other country I've been to thinks who you are matters if you haven't got anything threatening on you or in your bags.

TSA are the security experts. They said valid ID is critical to aviation safety and I take their word for it, so I am mystified that this group of known law-breakers gets a pass while ordinary citizens are harassed under the same circumstances. I show up with a 367-day old DL with a picture that still looks exactly like me and I get the full treatment just because the license has expired.
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Old Jun 7, 19, 9:17 am
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The key here is that the individual has previously been in federal custody. At that time extensive biometric data was obtained, making identity verification quite easy by fingerprints, facial recognition or dna. In all likelihood there is more confidence in the identity of these individuals than that of anyone merely presenting paper id.
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Old Jun 7, 19, 9:22 am
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Originally Posted by rens View Post
The key here is that the individual has previously been in federal custody. At that time extensive biometric data was obtained, making identity verification quite easy by fingerprints, facial recognition or dna. In all likelihood there is more confidence in the identity of these individuals than that of anyone merely presenting paper id.
Where are these folks coming from? If you're talking folks from way south of the border, I sincerely doubt there's much in the way of DNA or fingerprint evidence available on record in their home countries.

The bottom line is that TSA is disregarding its own insistence on the importance of verifiable government photo ID. They're basically saying that because they can physically clear these folks and any belongings at the checkpoint, they are no threat to aviation security.

They can clear me and my gear just as thoroughly (and do), but they'll rake me over the coals if I have an valid government-issued photo ID that is a year out of date but still clearly recognizable as me. Next year, they're going to make my life miserable if I show up with the same DL that they accept today because it will no longer meet the RealID requirements.

Just like that - I'll be able to fly with my DL one day, and the very next day I will no longer be allowed to pass unchallenged with that same ID.

And yet these folks get on with a piece of paper? How do the TSO's 'vet' that piece of paper?
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Last edited by chollie; Jun 7, 19 at 9:28 am
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Old Jun 7, 19, 10:08 am
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Eh, I'm not going to put too much stock into this sort of yellow journalism.

The author of the article starts off with the common misconception that asylum seekers are illegal migrants. Putting 'illegal migrants' in the headline, when in fact it's perfectly legal under both international and US law to enter the US for the purpose of claiming asylum shows this is an article with a xenophobic political agenda. They continue with the sensationalist tone throughout the article, with their main source being cherry-picked portions of the TSA webpage. Because I'm sure the portions of the webpage they pick out (and not the other portions they don't cite) are the definitive and up to date statement of TSA policy
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Old Jun 7, 19, 10:24 am
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Who really knows the character of the people crossing the border?

As this article states (yes, I recognize the source isn't respected):

https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/924413...mexico-border/

A CAPTURED ISIS fighter has made a chilling confession detailing how the terrorist group planned on exploiting vulnerabilities in the US border with Mexico to take advantage of smuggling routes and to target financial institutions.
and this:

https://www.dailysignal.com/2019/06/...-texas-border/

Border Patrol Catches 116 Africans at Texas Border


Bottom line with over one million people who have knowingly crossed the border just this month plus some unknown number of people who have crossed undetected this is no time to use relaxed or questionable security standards at airports.
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