Exec_Plat

Im just directing my comments to the smart and nuanced posters here... and those that felt compelled to keep an accurate thread title....

I didnt want it to get political.

gsoltso

It appears you misread my post. I indicated "actual terrorist" busts, not suspected. This is done all the time abroad, and even with local LEOs in some format, where they use someone caught doing something illegal to flip on someone higher up the food chain. I stand by my initial sentiment, if I can bust someone like say Osama bin Ladens courier (just using a popular figures name for discussion), and keep it somewhat quiet for a short period of time, and then apply pressure to that individual to move up the chain closer to Osama himself, I would do it in a heartbeat. If I am able to climb higher in that organization and take someone else out of their capabilities to support/conduct terror operations, it has a more far reaching impact. It could also provide current intel to military operators in the field that are most susceptible to some of the terror networks activities in theatre,

Personally, I have no interest in Saudi Arabia outside of a middling interest in seeing some of the historical sites. I will defer to your knowledge base about what kind of government they have in day to day operations, as I have never been there or experienced it.

It appears that you also misread my post. Taking someone down that is an "actual terror" bust, keeping it quiet and then trying to flip that person on someone higher in the food chain is a standard practice by almost every government that I know of. It is also something used at the local level for almost every LEO organization that I know of.

gobluetwo

To add to this, Wallace actually clarified earlier in his segment that "special interest aliens are just people who have come from countries that have ever produced a terrorist, they’re not terrorists themselves,” and that “the state department says, quote, ‘there were no credible evidence of any terrorist coming across the border from Mexico.'”

Hard to stay on track when Sanders keeps throwing out random "statistics" and conflating the issue with new justifications for their actions, like saying they're also stopping drug traffickers, human trafficking, violent criminals, etc. None of which is necessarily untrue, but certainly out of context and intended to obfuscate.

Boggie Dog

How do you know someone is an "actual terrorist" until adjudicated?

chollie

Same way you spot them at the checkpoint: you suspend rights and assume guilt.

gsoltso

The class I am indicating is the known terrorist group. These are people that are to be arrested, and to begin the legal process of adjudicating them. Similar to squeezing a holder for a distributor. You make the arrest, but do not publicize it, so you can use any information you gain in real time to compliment other investigations or actionable intel.

**There are different rules for some known terrorists depending upon where they are discovered/apprehended - I am referring to someone that is a known terrorist, that would be caught checking into an American airport.

petaluma1

I would submit that a smart known terrorist also knows how to get around any watch list.

GUWonder

Boggie Dog

I seriously doubt that one of these "known terrorist" will present at a TSA checkpoint or if they did that the typical TSA screener would recognize them. Face it, would a "known terrorist" try to infiltrate under their own identity, not change their appearance, nor have impeccable credentials?

gsoltso

I will not dispute that many known terrorists can circumvent many security procedures. That being said, some have a bad day here and there, or someone that catches them has a good day. Nothing is 100% effective against everyone.

petaluma1

But doesn't TSA claim it has to get it right every single time?

gsoltso

I am pretty sure you misread something, because I never said anything about "disappearing" someone. I am speaking of the same process used in accepted Law Enforcement arrests. Many times, it is a carrot and stick approach, where the bust happens, and the individual is given normal due process, but they are given an opportunity to roll on someone else further up the food chain. I am unsure how I can explain it any better to you. To be perfectly honest, I am actually leaning more towards the same type of situation for non US citizens, which is better than tossing them into GITMO (carrot and stick actually works better when there is a decent carrot). I am not certain whether you are just misunderstanding what I am saying, willfully misunderstanding what I am saying or just disagreeing with the way things operate in most LEO systems.

As an aside, most initial conversations with an attorney do not immediately result in the attorney running outside and organizing a press conference about their client - some do, but not most. In a case like a known terrorist being scooped up, most decent attorneys would listen to what happened, and then choose the best course of action for their client, and in a case where the best decision for their client is to shut up, and work the deal, then they usually pursue that course - again, not all attorneys do this, but it is the way I understand that the process works.

***In the interest of full disclosure, I am not an Attorney (I know, shocker right?), and do not presume to speak for them, but this is the way I understand most situations that involve counsel to work.

I have never said that. I understand that nothing in this world is 100% effective, 100% of the time. To claim otherwise is a tad unrealistic.

gobluetwo

I would also suggest that there may be some known homegrown terrorists who present at checkpoints. I'm not saying they are caught or that their movements are known to the authorities, but that they could show up at the airport.

Then again, is that really TSA's job to catch terrorists? Isn't TSA's job ostensibly to just screen passengers and luggage for "dangerous" items? They're not really there to screen identities and capture the bad guys.

petaluma1

I never claimed that you said it, but others in TSA have. As a matter of fact, I believe it is inculcated into screeners at the training academy.

gsoltso

Agreed. Homegrown terrorists is a growth enterprise right now. The number of people that are or are siding with homegrown terrorists has increased consistently over the last 30 years. It stands to reason that some of them come through the airports at some point.

Ahhh, now here is the challenging point. TSA is primarily there to prevent WEI from getting on planes. There are also other things that TSA has to report illegal items, and then there are other things that most people that deal with the public are asked to report - things like suspicious behavior, someone doing illegal things, unauthorized access to secured areas. The line between being good employees that are aware of their surroundings and that report things that could possibly indicate nefarious activity, and employees that are overbearing and just report things for the wrong reasons, is a balancing act. As someone working in security, I want our workforce to be aware of what is happening around them, and to notice when something is going on around them - behavioral awareness, knowing what is a regular occurrence at their workspace, and recognizing when something else is happening that could be problematic... I also want our workforce to have the interpersonal skills to recognize that just because something is not what normally happens, does not mean it carries ill intent. We should see things that happen, approach them in a professional way, and then act accordingly - sadly, based upon the stories I read, we do not always meet that bar.

I have always felt that the actual message they try to build in is to try and get everything right, every time - which is an excellent goal to strive for, regardless of the fact that it will not always be met. The primary message I have always gotten from all of our training is to mitigate the threat, while being professional. I can not say that some folks have not published other types of statements, but I have always felt that pushing unrealistic messages has a way of hurting your messaging capability.