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-   -   TSA slowdown / sickout (https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/checkpoints-borders-policy-debate/1949195-tsa-slowdown-sickout.html)

TBD Jan 7, 2019 9:49 am

Security fees are part of our ticket costs. Seems like this is all just added incentive for airports to ditch the TSA and direct those funds toward "more reliable" civilian/private screeners.

RatherBeOnATrain Jan 7, 2019 10:24 am


Originally Posted by Loren Pechtel (Post 30613626)
Even without the gig economy being out "sick" means no childcare expenses.

Some of the local ATL-area news coverage claimed that TSOs were taking sick leave because they couldn't afford to commute to/from work. As a result, ATL began offering free parking to uniformed TSA employees:

Hartsfield-Jackson International Airport is offering free parking to TSA employees during the federal shutdown. TSA workers in uniform can park on level 4 of the North daily parking deck for free by presenting their employee badge to the CT30 cashier at the exit, according to the city of Atlanta’s Department of Aviation.
Link: AJC -Atlanta mayor: Continued federal shutdown will affect airport workers, families (Jan 05, 2019)\

I presume that every TSO accepting this free parking is violating 5 U.S. Code § 7353 - Gifts to Federal employees

scolbath Jan 7, 2019 10:33 am


Originally Posted by WillCAD (Post 30617567)
TSOs pulling a sick-out are only going to hurt themselves. If they work during the shutdown, they WILL get paid for their hours, even if the checks are late and cause them headaches with their bills. But calling out sick just causes them to use up their sick leave, and potentially exposes them to punishment for illegal job action.

I wouldn't hold my breath on the punishment, however; the people who make that decision are also government employees who are not getting paid during the shutdown and will likely have much sympathy for those who call out sick. Besides, if it's not an organized sick-out but more of a grass-roots movement, then it might not qualify as illegal - just a lot of individual employees calling out sick on their own initiative.

And there is a rather nasty cold going around this season, so there are many folks who are legitimately out sick - it hit me the week before Christmas and ruined my holidays, causing me miss a couple of extra days of work. I'm still not 100% over it, and it's been more than two weeks.





I was in a similar situation at another job a few years ago, and that is how it worked for me, as well. I was paid by my company, but the government couldn't pay my company's invoices until after the shutdown ended. Being under contract meant that my company was obligated to keep me on the job for the duration of the shutdown, but it also meant that we were certain to get paid for our work after the shutdown ended.

It was awkward, though. I reported for work that first day with only a smattering of essential government employees and one or two other contractors on site. While walking down the hallway, I heard one government employee (who, remember, was forced to be at work but would not get paid until the shutdown ended) exclaim, "What is HE doing here!?" with some genuine anger in her voice. Fortunately, she had said that to another government employee who explained the situation to her without rancor, defusing a potentially hostile encounter.

If they didn't pay your company's invoices, it was likely because no one was around to approve them - not because they didn't have the funds. Federal contracts cannot be awarded unless there are appropriations to pay for them - as specified by the anti-deficiency act. So any contractor working in 2019 is under a contract funded by 2018 funds from that year's budget.

TBD Jan 7, 2019 11:31 am


Originally Posted by RatherBeOnATrain (Post 30622720)
I presume that every TSO accepting this free parking is violating 5 U.S. Code § 7353 - Gifts to Federal employees

I don't see how you connect a "gift" as it's defined in that law to the free parking option offered by the city of Atlanta to a TSO.

scolbath Jan 7, 2019 11:45 am


Originally Posted by TBD (Post 30623070)
I don't see how you connect a "gift" as it's defined in that law to the free parking option offered by the city of Atlanta to a TSO.

Section (a)(2) says employees of the Executive Branch may not accept gifts from a person "whose interests may be substantially affected by the performance or nonperformance of the individual’s official duties". How is the City of Atlanta, an organization who owns the airport, not "substantially affected by the performance or nonperformance" of the TSA?

TBD Jan 7, 2019 12:13 pm

Well, for starters, this is (supposedly) a "gift" to a TSO and not the entire TSA. The TSA, as an entire organization, could "substantially affect" the City of Atlanta, but the TSA can also deem this gift to be ethical per the same law you just selectively quoted.

You're setting the bar pretty low if you think that the City of Atlanta is "substantially impacted" (or would even notice in the first place) that a single TSO comes in (or not) to work.

(Never mind that the whole point of this law is for the appearance of objectivity in business matters with the government, which again doesn't apply here since a TSO work attendance is unlikely to impact the City's ledger).

scolbath Jan 7, 2019 12:33 pm


Originally Posted by TBD (Post 30623246)
Well, for starters, this is (supposedly) a "gift" to a TSO and not the entire TSA. The TSA, as an entire organization, could "substantially affect" the City of Atlanta, but the TSA can also deem this gift to be ethical per the same law you just selectively quoted.

You're setting the bar pretty low if you think that the City of Atlanta is "substantially impacted" (or would even notice in the first place) that a single TSO comes in (or not) to work.

(Never mind that the whole point of this law is for the appearance of objectivity in business matters with the government, which again doesn't apply here since a TSO work attendance is unlikely to impact the City's ledger).

While in general I agree with your line of reasoning, the fact is that the law isn't stated that way - there are no qualifiers of magnitude of effect in that section of law. I work for one of the top 5 defense contractors here in the US. When we have a technical meeting, frequented by GS-9s through GS-13s, and it bridges lunch, I am required by my employer to solicit payment for that lunch from every govvie in attendence - even though none of them are the Contracting Officer or the Contracting Officer's Technical Representative, the only two individuals who are by law able to give me, the contractor, an order. In addition, we have an internal IT system designed specifically to *track and approve* all such expenditures.

If you have too much leeway for judgement, that's when funny business starts.

richarddd Jan 7, 2019 12:35 pm


Originally Posted by TBD (Post 30623246)
(Never mind that the whole point of this law is for the appearance of objectivity in business matters with the government, which again doesn't apply here since a TSO work attendance is unlikely to impact the City's ledger).

It's basically an anti-bribery law. If I were to give something of value to a TSO, presumably I'm doing it to get something, such as easier screening, which would seem to be a problem. At worst, the city is giving something to the TSOs to let them do their job, without expecting any particular outcome. In the real world, it's hard to believe a rational judge would find this to be a problem.

Also, the Supreme Court has been narrowing anti-bribery, anti-corruption and related laws. For example, see https://www.vox.com/the-big-idea/201...-supreme-court

TBD Jan 7, 2019 12:35 pm


Originally Posted by scolbath (Post 30623351)
While in general I agree with your line of reasoning, the fact is that the law isn't stated that way - there are no qualifiers of magnitude of effect in that section of law. I work for one of the top 5 defense contractors here in the US. When we have a technical meeting, frequented by GS-9s through GS-13s, and it bridges lunch, I am required by my employer to solicit payment for that lunch from every govvie in attendence - even though none of them are the Contracting Officer or the Contracting Officer's Technical Representative, the only two individuals who are by law able to give me, the contractor, an order. In addition, we have an internal IT system designed specifically to *track and approve* all such expenditures.

If you have too much leeway for judgement, that's when funny business starts.

...and a defense contractor, unlike a TSO federal employee, does stand to benefit from swaying hearts and minds through a gift. Really, though, this is off topic, and a total rabbit hole.


Originally Posted by richarddd (Post 30623364)
It's basically an anti-bribery law.

Exactly my point. The City of Atlanta is obviously not bribing a TSO to do something inappropriate here.

jamesinclair Jan 7, 2019 12:38 pm


Originally Posted by Boggie Dog (Post 30622224)
As of today they haven't missed one paycheck so why walk off now?

Living paycheck to paychck means they need a portion of their $1,000 check as cash in hand on Friday to make payments. utility bills. Credit cards, whatever. The sad reality is that most of the money for folks living at these wages has already been spent before it arrives.

If you need $400 cash Friday morning, then you have to spend many hours working as an Uber driver, or Grubhub delivery person or whatever prior to Friday.

Never mind folks who are pro-actively dropping off resume at more permanent jobs and trying to hit job interviews. This is the 3rd shutdown in a year. Whats to say this wont happen again and again over the next 2 years?

scolbath Jan 7, 2019 12:45 pm


Originally Posted by TBD (Post 30623365)
...and a defense contractor, unlike a TSO federal employee, does stand to benefit from swaying hearts and minds through a gift. Really, though, this is off topic, and a total rabbit hole.


Exactly my point. The City of Atlanta is obviously not bribing a TSO to do something inappropriate here.

You have the analogy back to front. The city of Atlanta is equivalent to the defense contractor here. The benefit is that LGA and JFK are already getting negative press about TSA issues; if Atlanta does not, that is a benefit to them - look at us, we have easier security than these other cities - hold your next convention here.

The rule is simple - the government *at any level* cannot accept a free gift.

TBD Jan 7, 2019 12:50 pm


Originally Posted by scolbath (Post 30623419)
You have the analogy back to front. The city of Atlanta is equivalent to the defense contractor here. The benefit is that LGA and JFK are already getting negative press about TSA issues; if Atlanta does not, that is a benefit to them - look at us, we have easier security than these other cities - hold your next convention here.

The rule is simple - the government *at any level* cannot accept a free gift.

Restating it doesn't make it true or applicable to this scenario.

ND76 Jan 7, 2019 1:57 pm

I'm also concerned about TSA "sick-outs". As I understand it, the end of the current scheduled federal pay period is Friday 1/11, with direct deposits theoretically available on Tuesday 1/15. Since Homeland Security does not have an appropriation at the present time, I'm not sure how the feds legally pay anyone who works for the DHS agencies at the end of this week. Sick-outs will inevitably follow.

My wife and I are traveling on 1/15, starting our trip at IAD with a 1220 departure on Delta. I'll report back.

rolling_stone Jan 7, 2019 2:26 pm

TSA already pays for parking for screening personnel. At LAX it is off site so nobody needs any help from the airport. If they commute by public transportation they are given a certain allowance each month for the various commuter trains or flyaway's.

WillCAD Jan 8, 2019 5:44 am


Originally Posted by jamesinclair (Post 30622168)
When the president says the shutdown could last "months or years" do you really expect them to sit back and just take it?

Most of these folks are making under $40k. Thats the definition of living paycheck to paycheck in major metro areas.

The rhetoric spewed by both sides does not reflect reality. The longest shutdown in history was 21 days in 1995/96. Even if this one sets a new record, I cannot imagine the American people putting up with a shutdown that lasts more than 4 or 6 weeks. The federal government will be back to work in the month of January, I have no doubt. The longer they hold out, the more public opinion will shift the blame equally to both sides instead of just to the side that people disagree with. Shutdowns COST the American taxpayer a lot of money, because the federal employees who are not at work are always paid for the time they weren't working, meaning that the taxpayers lay out money for work they didn't get (NOTE: I say that without rancor toward the federal employees; they're victims in this shutdown crap, just like the rest of the country).

And sure, I know TSOs are not highly paid, but there are many other agencies with employees in the same boat. So, where are the stories of sick-outs from all of those other DHS agencies? CBP? ICE? Secret Service? How about agencies and departments outside DHS, like the FBI? IRS? DOE? DOT? I haven't heard of mass sick-outs among their low-paid critical employees.

If they are calling out sick to work side jobs to pay the bills, I can't say as I blame them, but I doubt that this is the case for more than a small fraction of TSOs. I suspect that most are simply angry at the shutdown and calling in sick with the rationale, "If I ain't getting paid, I ain't working. Screw the gub'mint!" Remember - TSO morale has consistently been ridiculously low over the last few years. The average TSO not only lacks any sort of enthusiasm for their job, they hold an active dislike for their agency and its upper management. They feel no loyalty toward them from the agency, so they feel no loyalty toward the agency and no moral or ethical obligation to soldier on and complete their divine work through the shutdown hardship.

And my original statement stands - they're using up their sick leave, and there is a small risk that their actions may skirt the definition of an illegal job action. But as I said, I have no expectation that anyone in TSA will be held accountable if that is the case; after all, when has TSA ever been held accountable for doing anything illegal, unethical, immoral, or imbecilic?


Originally Posted by scolbath (Post 30622771)
If they didn't pay your company's invoices, it was likely because no one was around to approve them - not because they didn't have the funds. Federal contracts cannot be awarded unless there are appropriations to pay for them - as specified by the anti-deficiency act. So any contractor working in 2019 is under a contract funded by 2018 funds from that year's budget.

Whether through lack of funds or through lack of people to move funds, the invoices were not paid during the shutdown. Payment resumed when the shutdown ended.


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