Go Back  FlyerTalk Forums > Travel&Dining > Travel Safety/Security > Checkpoints and Borders Policy Debate
Reload this Page >

Federal Air Marshal removed from UA flight in handcuffs

Register
Community
Wiki Posts
Today's Posts
Search

Federal Air Marshal removed from UA flight in handcuffs

Thread Tools
 
Search this Thread
 
Old Aug 22, 2018, 5:11 pm
  #1  
Suspended
Original Poster
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Watchlisted by the prejudiced, en route to purgatory
Programs: Just Say No to Fleecing and Blacklisting
Posts: 102,095
Federal Air Marshal removed from UA flight in handcuffs
FAM showed his gun on United domestic flight and got hauled off in handcuffs for doing that.

https://us.yahoo.com/finance/news/fe...180632193.html
Spiff likes this.
GUWonder is offline  
Reply
Old Aug 22, 2018, 5:35 pm
  #2  
FlyerTalk Evangelist
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: An NPR mind living in a Fox News world
Posts: 14,165
Originally Posted by GUWonder
FAM showed his gun on United domestic flight and got hauled off in handcuffs for doing that.

https://us.yahoo.com/finance/news/fe...180632193.html
He must have had a really tough time tailing a Quiet Skies terrorist...
FliesWay2Much is offline  
Reply
Old Aug 22, 2018, 6:08 pm
  #3  
FlyerTalk Evangelist
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: DFW
Posts: 28,090
Originally Posted by FliesWay2Much
He must have had a really tough time tailing a Quiet Skies terrorist...
Maybe it was the flight attendant again and they figured out they were being tailed.
Boggie Dog is offline  
Reply
Old Aug 22, 2018, 6:45 pm
  #4  
Moderator: Travel Safety/Security, Travel Tools, California, Los Angeles; FlyerTalk Evangelist
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: LAX
Programs: oneword Emerald
Posts: 20,615
Quite a bit more detail in this StarTribune article:
Federal marshals removed from plane at MSP, cuffed; 1 of them 'flashed a gun'

However, communication between the cockpit and the MSP control tower that was captured by the authoritative website Liveatc.net revealed that it was confirmed onboard fairly quickly that both men were federal air marshals, and one of them “actually showed our flight attendant his gun,” one of the pilots reported soon after landing.

“That is completely against SOP [standard operating procedure] for them to show their firearm,” the pilot added. “So that’s the reason we declared an emergency.”

Airport spokesman Patrick Hogan defended the airport officers’ actions and spelled out in detail why they had no choice but to detain the men and take them to the airport’s police station for questioning by the FBI.
TWA884 is offline  
Reply
Old Aug 22, 2018, 8:47 pm
  #5  
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: SNA
Programs: Bonvoy LTTE/AMB, AmEx Plat, National EE, WN A-List, CLEAR+, Covid-19
Posts: 4,963
They're using FAMs on domestic flights (again?)? I guess I'm confused, but haven't the FAM protocols changed in the years since 9/11? I've even stopped looking for them (they weren't hard to spot )
kennycrudup is offline  
Reply
Old Aug 22, 2018, 9:02 pm
  #6  
FlyerTalk Evangelist
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: DFW
Posts: 28,090
Both FAM's in First and on a short domestic flight. Doesn't sound like a normal FAM flight. Quiet Skies?
Boggie Dog is offline  
Reply
Old Aug 22, 2018, 9:54 pm
  #7  
FlyerTalk Evangelist
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Phoenix, AZ
Programs: AA Gold AAdvantage Elite, Rapids Reward
Posts: 38,318
Originally Posted by Boggie Dog
Both FAM's in First and on a short domestic flight. Doesn't sound like a normal FAM flight. Quiet Skies?
Yeah, makes sense! I don't like FAM on the flight. As long if the passengers behave well. No one ever to bring FAM on the flight.
N830MH is offline  
Reply
Old Aug 23, 2018, 12:28 am
  #8  
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 765
This is just as absurd as requiring the pilot of a plane to even go through security at all. If the pilot wanted to crash the plane there's nothing stopping him.
nd2010 is offline  
Reply
Old Aug 23, 2018, 1:44 am
  #9  
Suspended
Original Poster
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Watchlisted by the prejudiced, en route to purgatory
Programs: Just Say No to Fleecing and Blacklisting
Posts: 102,095
Originally Posted by nd2010
This is just as absurd as requiring the pilot of a plane to even go through security at all. If the pilot wanted to crash the plane there's nothing stopping him.
Pilots have smuggled contraband onto flights of their own and have handed off contraband into the hands of those taking other flights. A good reason to scan them for weapons. Also a good reason to prohibit so many airside guns and cut back on the FAMs program.
Spiff likes this.
GUWonder is offline  
Reply
Old Aug 23, 2018, 11:42 am
  #10  
 
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: Pacific Wonderland
Programs: ʙᴏɴᴠo̱ʏ Au, IHG Au, HH Dia, Nexus, Pilot FlyingJ Preferred
Posts: 5,336
Edited radio traffic here

saizai likes this.
rustykettel is offline  
Reply
Old Aug 23, 2018, 1:42 pm
  #11  
FlyerTalk Evangelist
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: DFW
Posts: 28,090
At about 7:50 into the radio communications as posted by rustykettlel (post #10 ) the pilot states that the air marshal "said he needed to see the manifest, demanded he was trying to find a passenger and showed her his gun" and the crew didn't know that there were FAM's on the airplane.

I'm convinced that this was likely a Quiet Skies surveillance and it seems the FAM's didn't even know who they were looking for. TSA, why am I not surprised?
Boggie Dog is offline  
Reply
Old Aug 23, 2018, 1:47 pm
  #12  
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: SNA
Programs: Bonvoy LTTE/AMB, AmEx Plat, National EE, WN A-List, CLEAR+, Covid-19
Posts: 4,963
Originally Posted by Boggie Dog
I'm convinced that this was likely a Quiet Skies surveillance ...
OK, so I just discovered what this is- and does this mean that whomever the "perp" being surveilled just walked off the plane with everyone else? Since I'd imagine anyone on a "QS" checklist is likely nefarious, them seeing this happen then reading about the actual events will tip them off and drive them further underground, don't you think?
kennycrudup is offline  
Reply
Old Aug 23, 2018, 2:19 pm
  #13  
FlyerTalk Evangelist
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: DFW
Posts: 28,090
Originally Posted by kennycrudup
OK, so I just discovered what this is- and does this mean that whomever the "perp" being surveilled just walked off the plane with everyone else? Since I'd imagine anyone on a "QS" checklist is likely nefarious, them seeing this happen then reading about the actual events will tip them off and drive them further underground, don't you think?
Perhaps you should read up on TSA's Quiet Skies surveillance program before jumping to conclusions.

Quiet Skies

"The previously undisclosed program, called “Quiet Skies,” specifically targets travelers who “are not under investigation by any agency and are not in the Terrorist Screening Data Base,” according to a Transportation Security Administration bulletin in March."
If TSA is doing such a bang up job why would anyone thing they are being tailed?

Underground? Flying on a commercial flight gets your name vetted through multiple databases. Pretty out there if you ask me.

So yes, this unsuspected person walked off just like everyone else other than an Air Marshal who violated SOP and drew unnecessary attention to themselves. As asked in the radio traffic, why didn't the FAM just show his badge or was this another case of a Flight Attendant being under surveillance by TSA?

And yes I do think, I think Quiet Skies is just another effort by TSA to implement Behavior Detection, an unscientific, failed program that should never see the light of day.
Spiff and petaluma1 like this.
Boggie Dog is offline  
Reply
Old Aug 23, 2018, 3:07 pm
  #14  
FlyerTalk Evangelist
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Phoenix, AZ
Programs: AA Gold AAdvantage Elite, Rapids Reward
Posts: 38,318
Originally Posted by nd2010
This is just as absurd as requiring the pilot of a plane to even go through security at all. If the pilot wanted to crash the plane there's nothing stopping him.
Exactly! They were supposed to go through at security checkpoints. They cannot go through exiting from entire concourse.
N830MH is offline  
Reply
Old Aug 23, 2018, 6:43 pm
  #15  
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 471
Originally Posted by GUWonder


Pilots have smuggled contraband onto flights of their own and have handed off contraband into the hands of those taking other flights. A good reason to scan them for weapons. Also a good reason to prohibit so many airside guns and cut back on the FAMs program.
Looking for contraband is not part of the TSA's charter and outside the administrative search guidelines setup by the courts.
VelvetJones is offline  
Reply



Advanced Search
Reply Closed Thread Share
Forum Jump

Contact Us - Manage Preferences - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service -

This site is owned, operated, and maintained by MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. Copyright © 2024 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Designated trademarks are the property of their respective owners.