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-   Checkpoints and Borders Policy Debate (https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/checkpoints-borders-policy-debate-687/)
-   -   Constitution-Free Zone Alive & Well! (https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/checkpoints-borders-policy-debate/1889963-constitution-free-zone-alive-well.html)

FliesWay2Much Jan 23, 18 7:43 am

Constitution-Free Zone Alive & Well!
 
Be careful if you ride the bus in Florida...


As a Greyhound bus pulled up to a Fort Lauderdale, Fla., station on Friday afternoon, en route from Orlando to Miami, the driver announced there would be a “routine” security checkpoint.Two uniformed officers boarded the bus and introduced themselves as Border Patrol agents, passengers told the Florida Immigrant Coalition, an advocacy group. The officers made their way down the center aisle, row by row, questioning passengers. They instructed each person to present “a U.S. identification or a passport with a stamp of entrance,” one passenger, Raquel Quesada, told CBS4.About halfway down the aisle, the officers stopped to question a woman of Caribbean descent: “Do you have luggage?” He pulled a red roller suitcase from the overhead bin. “This is yours?” he asked. Then the two officers escorted the woman off the bus.The woman was later arrested, transported to a Border Patrol station for questioning and turned over to Immigration and Customs Enforcement for removal proceedings, the Border Patrol confirmed to the Miami Herald.

JumboJet Jan 23, 18 8:04 am

She shouldn't have overstayed her visa. That's subject to detention and deportation.

Boggie Dog Jan 23, 18 9:02 am

I have no issue with laws being enforced. Illegal entry, overstaying visa's or what have you. The law on the books should apply.

KDS777 Jan 23, 18 9:42 am

Good for the border patrol. We need enforcement like this "but with teeth" up here in Canada.

I've been thru their remote checkpoints in New Mexico before......no big deal.

bitterproffit Jan 23, 18 9:46 am

A lot of excusing of the constitution, but when did we start having to carry documents proving we were US citizens traveling within the US?

I have never had to show ID at remote border checkpoints, just answer a question.

Are those saying this is ok advocating for a law requiring proof of citizenship and identification at all times?

JumboJet Jan 23, 18 9:47 am


Originally Posted by KDS777 (Post 29329026)
Good for the border patrol. We need enforcement like this "but with teeth" up here in Canada.

I've been thru their remote checkpoints in New Mexico before......no big deal.

Me too. When I worked east of San Diego we had to go through a checkpoint everyday. No problem for us but the school bus they had there was filled up every night on the way back home.

Boggie Dog Jan 23, 18 9:57 am


Originally Posted by bitterproffit (Post 29329045)
A lot of excusing of the constitution, but when did we start having to carry documents proving we were US citizens traveling within the US?

I have never had to show ID at remote border checkpoints, just answer a question.

Are those saying this is ok advocating for a law requiring proof of citizenship and identification at all times?

I don't see anyone excusing the constitution in this thread. Do you or do you not support obeying the law?

JumboJet Jan 23, 18 10:12 am


Originally Posted by bitterproffit (Post 29329045)
A lot of excusing of the constitution, but when did we start having to carry documents proving we were US citizens traveling within the US?

I have never had to show ID at remote border checkpoints, just answer a question.

Are those saying this is ok advocating for a law requiring proof of citizenship and identification at all times?

That is a pretty big leap. And no I don't think I should have to carry ID at all times but when I get on public transportation I figure there is a possibility I may have to. Especially in an area like Southern Florida. I didn't hear it on the video but I'm pretty sure there was a huge sigh of relief when they just took her.:)

Boggie Dog Jan 23, 18 10:36 am


Originally Posted by JumboJet (Post 29329177)
That is a pretty big leap. And no I don't think I should have to carry ID at all times but when I get on public transportation I figure there is a possibility I may have to. Especially in an area like Southern Florida. I didn't hear it on the video but I'm pretty sure there was a huge sigh of relief when they just took her.:)

If I'm not mistaken visitors to the U.S. are required to carry their Passport and Visa documents. 18 year old and older Green Card holders are required to carry their Green cards. Almost all other people have something with their name on it, Drivers License, SSN card, Medicare card of some other form of possible ID should a situation present that producing ID beats the available alternatives.

The underlying issue of uncontrolled, undocumented immigration will be painful to some but is fully justified and that is all this officer was doing, enforcing the law.

catocony Jan 23, 18 11:47 am

There is no legal requirement for US citizens to carry identification. The fact that most people do have an ID of some sort is irrelevant to the fact that it is a violation of the Constitution to require citizens to carry documentation.

bitterproffit Jan 23, 18 12:05 pm


Originally Posted by Boggie Dog (Post 29329102)
I don't see anyone excusing the constitution in this thread. Do you or do you not support obeying the law?

I support the law. What law requires me to provide citizenship ID while traveling within the US?


Originally Posted by Boggie Dog (Post 29329281)
If I'm not mistaken visitors to the U.S. are required to carry their Passport and Visa documents. 18 year old and older Green Card holders are required to carry their Green cards. Almost all other people have something with their name on it, Drivers License, SSN card, Medicare card of some other form of possible ID should a situation present that producing ID beats the available alternatives.

The underlying issue of uncontrolled, undocumented immigration will be painful to some but is fully justified and that is all this officer was doing, enforcing the law.


Again, what law requires me to carry proof of citizenship at all times as a US citizen?

JumboJet Jan 23, 18 12:23 pm


Originally Posted by bitterproffit (Post 29329683)
Again, what law requires me to carry proof of citizenship at all times as a US citizen?

No law that I am aware of however:

Originally Posted by The Article
Federal regulations give Customs and Border Protection wide-ranging authority to operate within 100 miles of any U.S. border. About two-thirds of the United States population live within 100 miles of a U.S. land or coastal border. The entire state of Florida is within such a zone.

Within these boundaries, Border Patrol can, without a warrant, interrogate or arrest any person that they have reason to believe is in the country illegally and is likely to escape before an arrest warrant can be obtained.The Immigration and Nationality Act also states that immigration officers can, without a warrant and “within a reasonable distance from any external boundary of the United States” board and search for undocumented immigrants “in any vessel within the territorial waters of the United States and any railcar, aircraft, conveyance, or vehicle."


Originally Posted by THE OP

Yeah good advice

pewpew Jan 23, 18 12:33 pm


Originally Posted by Boggie Dog (Post 29329281)
If I'm not mistaken visitors to the U.S. are required to carry their Passport and Visa documents. 18 year old and older Green Card holders are required to carry their Green cards. Almost all other people have something with their name on it, Drivers License, SSN card, Medicare card of some other form of possible ID should a situation present that producing ID beats the available alternatives.

The underlying issue of uncontrolled, undocumented immigration will be painful to some but is fully justified and that is all this officer was doing, enforcing the law.

pretty sure it's just the I94/green card if you're referring to US Code, Title 8 § 1304. I remember when I attended international student orientation at a US school though, we were told to keep photos of our passports and I20 so who knows.

I suppose one benefit of Nexus is that you can carry that card instead of your passport? What a hassle.

Boggie Dog Jan 23, 18 12:36 pm


Originally Posted by bitterproffit (Post 29329683)
Again, what law requires me to carry proof of citizenship at all times as a US citizen?


None that I know of but if an Immigration Officer suspects you are not a citizen and you do not have any documents or refuse to produce documents they can take you into custody until your status is confirmed. That's why I said that showing ID might be the better choice if push comes to shove in some situations. And the real point is that visitors are required to have their documents while in country.

Regardless, we are not talking about a U.S. citizen in this case but a person who ignored our laws and overstayed their visa.


The agency explained that “while performing an immigration inspection at a Fort Lauderdale bus station, Border Patrol agents identified a passenger who was illegally residing in the United States,” according to the statement in the Miami Herald. “The subject was an adult female that had overstayed her tourist visa.”

bitterproffit Jan 23, 18 1:35 pm


Originally Posted by Boggie Dog (Post 29329790)
None that I know of but if an Immigration Officer suspects you are not a citizen and you do not have any documents or refuse to produce documents they can take you into custody until your status is confirmed. That's why I said that showing ID might be the better choice if push comes to shove in some situations. And the real point is that visitors are required to have their documents while in country.

Regardless, we are not talking about a U.S. citizen in this case but a person who ignored our laws and overstayed their visa.

I was talking about the citizens on the bus that were forced to provide proof of citizenship in violation of the constitution.


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