Constitution-Free Zone Alive & Well!
#91
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: DFW
Posts: 28,010
The threat of arrest if unable to provide proof of citizenship violates the guarantees of the 4th amendment against unresonable search or seizure. There is a generally accepted exception within 100 air miles of a US border, however, which would effectively cover all of Florida. (I don't agree with this exception, but the courts have repeatedly upheld such searches as "reasonable".)
#92
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Newport Beach, California, USA
Posts: 36,062
So as currently interpreted there was no violation in this case, correct? The United States has laws that controls entry and immigration. This person stayed beyond her visa period and was in violation. Removal is often the result of overstaying a visa which is what seems to be the case here. If a person wishes to immigrate to the United States then follow the law. Otherwise get what is rightfully coming.
#93
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: DFW
Posts: 28,010
Sorry, but you seem to miss the point entirely. What makes this "case" important is not the fact that the woman was deported, but that there appears to be a violation of both the 4th and 5th Amendments by ICE. In America, no one has to prove to a LEO in a random stop that they haven't committed a crime.
Not having been there I don't know what conversation might have taken place and assuming that Federal LEO's violated this woman's rights without evidence seems a bit much.
#94
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Dulles, VA
Programs: UA Life Gold, Marriott Life Titanium
Posts: 2,757
Boggie, a massive point that you seem to be missing is that they stopped a busload of people, not just one person. They violated everyone's rights on that bus, just to nab one person who overstayed her visa.
I doubt if too many people who have commented on this thread ride Greyhound, but if they started doing this on domestic airline flights or Amtrak or any public transit system in any city, then we are getting very close to a "paper's please" form of government.
I doubt if too many people who have commented on this thread ride Greyhound, but if they started doing this on domestic airline flights or Amtrak or any public transit system in any city, then we are getting very close to a "paper's please" form of government.
#95
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jun 2013
Posts: 17,263
Boggie, a massive point that you seem to be missing is that they stopped a busload of people, not just one person. They violated everyone's rights on that bus, just to nab one person who overstayed her visa.
I doubt if too many people who have commented on this thread ride Greyhound, but if they started doing this on domestic airline flights or Amtrak or any public transit system in any city, then we are getting very close to a "paper's please" form of government.
I doubt if too many people who have commented on this thread ride Greyhound, but if they started doing this on domestic airline flights or Amtrak or any public transit system in any city, then we are getting very close to a "paper's please" form of government.
#96
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Newport Beach, California, USA
Posts: 36,062
Not having been there I don't know what conversation might have taken place and assuming that Federal LEO's violated this woman's rights without evidence seems a bit much.
If you don't believe me, ask the ACLU. <deleted>.
Last edited by TWA884; Feb 6, 2018 at 1:26 pm Reason: Not necessary
#97
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: DFW
Posts: 28,010
No. And it doesn't matter. My professional opinion is that what happened was a violation of this person's 4th and 5th Amendment rights. You don't have to believe me, but I'm also not alone in thinking this.
All the "evidence" is right there. When someone is on a bus and can't readily get off because ICE is blocking the way, that is detainment and also coercive. Interrogation while detained in a coercive context is a violation of 4th and 5th Amendment rights -- what counts is the person's perception. And, again, the idea that someone must prove to LEOs that they haven't done something wrong when there was no reason for the LEOs to be there in the first place is completely offensive to the fundamental principles of American justice (and the Constitution).
If you don't believe me, ask the ACLU. <Deleted>.
All the "evidence" is right there. When someone is on a bus and can't readily get off because ICE is blocking the way, that is detainment and also coercive. Interrogation while detained in a coercive context is a violation of 4th and 5th Amendment rights -- what counts is the person's perception. And, again, the idea that someone must prove to LEOs that they haven't done something wrong when there was no reason for the LEOs to be there in the first place is completely offensive to the fundamental principles of American justice (and the Constitution).
If you don't believe me, ask the ACLU. <Deleted>.
Last edited by TWA884; Feb 6, 2018 at 1:39 pm Reason: Response to deleted content
#98
Moderator: Travel Safety/Security, Travel Tools, California, Los Angeles; FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: LAX
Programs: oneword Emerald
Posts: 20,481
Moderator's Note:
Please keep in mind the following FlyerTalk Rule when posting:
TWA884
Travel Safety/Security co-moderator
12.2 Avoid Getting Personal
If you have a difference of opinion with another member, challenge the idea — NOT the person. Getting personal with another member is not allowed. Personal attacks, insults, baiting and flaming will not be tolerated.
<snip>
Future personal exchanges will be summarily deleted without further notice. Repeat offenders will be subject to discipline (FT Rule 23).If you have a difference of opinion with another member, challenge the idea — NOT the person. Getting personal with another member is not allowed. Personal attacks, insults, baiting and flaming will not be tolerated.
<snip>
TWA884
Travel Safety/Security co-moderator
#99
Moderator: Manufactured Spending
Join Date: Jul 2011
Posts: 6,576
All the "evidence" is right there. When someone is on a bus and can't readily get off because ICE is blocking the way, that is detainment and also coercive. Interrogation while detained in a coercive context is a violation of 4th and 5th Amendment rights -- what counts is the person's perception. And, again, the idea that someone must prove to LEOs that they haven't done something wrong when there was no reason for the LEOs to be there in the first place is completely offensive to the fundamental principles of American justice (and the Constitution).
If the police pull me over, take my license and registration from me, and then say "we need to search your car", my perception may be that I have no choice but to say "okay". But if I do, that is clearly a consensual search.
#100
Moderator: Travel Safety/Security, Travel Tools, California, Los Angeles; FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: LAX
Programs: oneword Emerald
Posts: 20,481
#102
Join Date: Sep 2016
Posts: 245
Amtrak now, too:
https://www.thedailybeast.com/border...heyre-citizens
CBP is telling riders to prove they are citizens, not that they are here legally. What would happen to a LPR or tourist who was caught?
https://www.thedailybeast.com/border...heyre-citizens
CBP is telling riders to prove they are citizens, not that they are here legally. What would happen to a LPR or tourist who was caught?
#103
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Chicago
Posts: 11,509
CBP ID Checks of Passengers Arriving on Domestic Flights
#105
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Chicago
Posts: 11,509
Originally Posted by Vera M. Scanlon, USMJ on 01/25/2018
Defendant failed to participate in the discovery preparation process without justification. Defendant is on notice that it is expected to participate in the litigation and comply with the Court's orders. Such conduct is not expected to continue.