Originally Posted by txviking
(Post 29384259)
The threat of arrest if unable to provide proof of citizenship violates the guarantees of the 4th amendment against unresonable search or seizure. There is a generally accepted exception within 100 air miles of a US border, however, which would effectively cover all of Florida. (I don't agree with this exception, but the courts have repeatedly upheld such searches as "reasonable".)
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Originally Posted by Boggie Dog
(Post 29385438)
So as currently interpreted there was no violation in this case, correct? The United States has laws that controls entry and immigration. This person stayed beyond her visa period and was in violation. Removal is often the result of overstaying a visa which is what seems to be the case here. If a person wishes to immigrate to the United States then follow the law. Otherwise get what is rightfully coming.
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Originally Posted by PTravel
(Post 29385861)
Sorry, but you seem to miss the point entirely. What makes this "case" important is not the fact that the woman was deported, but that there appears to be a violation of both the 4th and 5th Amendments by ICE. In America, no one has to prove to a LEO in a random stop that they haven't committed a crime.
Not having been there I don't know what conversation might have taken place and assuming that Federal LEO's violated this woman's rights without evidence seems a bit much. |
Boggie, a massive point that you seem to be missing is that they stopped a busload of people, not just one person. They violated everyone's rights on that bus, just to nab one person who overstayed her visa.
I doubt if too many people who have commented on this thread ride Greyhound, but if they started doing this on domestic airline flights or Amtrak or any public transit system in any city, then we are getting very close to a "paper's please" form of government. |
Originally Posted by catocony
(Post 29386704)
Boggie, a massive point that you seem to be missing is that they stopped a busload of people, not just one person. They violated everyone's rights on that bus, just to nab one person who overstayed her visa.
I doubt if too many people who have commented on this thread ride Greyhound, but if they started doing this on domestic airline flights or Amtrak or any public transit system in any city, then we are getting very close to a "paper's please" form of government. |
Originally Posted by Boggie Dog
(Post 29386187)
Do you know of any legal action being taken against CBP in this case?
Not having been there I don't know what conversation might have taken place and assuming that Federal LEO's violated this woman's rights without evidence seems a bit much. If you don't believe me, ask the ACLU. <deleted>. |
Originally Posted by PTravel
(Post 29386811)
No. And it doesn't matter. My professional opinion is that what happened was a violation of this person's 4th and 5th Amendment rights. You don't have to believe me, but I'm also not alone in thinking this.
All the "evidence" is right there. When someone is on a bus and can't readily get off because ICE is blocking the way, that is detainment and also coercive. Interrogation while detained in a coercive context is a violation of 4th and 5th Amendment rights -- what counts is the person's perception. And, again, the idea that someone must prove to LEOs that they haven't done something wrong when there was no reason for the LEOs to be there in the first place is completely offensive to the fundamental principles of American justice (and the Constitution). If you don't believe me, ask the ACLU. <Deleted>. |
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Originally Posted by PTravel
(Post 29386811)
All the "evidence" is right there. When someone is on a bus and can't readily get off because ICE is blocking the way, that is detainment and also coercive. Interrogation while detained in a coercive context is a violation of 4th and 5th Amendment rights -- what counts is the person's perception. And, again, the idea that someone must prove to LEOs that they haven't done something wrong when there was no reason for the LEOs to be there in the first place is completely offensive to the fundamental principles of American justice (and the Constitution).
If the police pull me over, take my license and registration from me, and then say "we need to search your car", my perception may be that I have no choice but to say "okay". But if I do, that is clearly a consensual search. |
Originally Posted by cbn42
(Post 29387130)
But if I do, that is clearly a consensual search.
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Originally Posted by cbn42
(Post 29387130)
But if I do, that is clearly a consensual search.
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Amtrak now, too:
https://www.thedailybeast.com/border...heyre-citizens CBP is telling riders to prove they are citizens, not that they are here legally. What would happen to a LPR or tourist who was caught? |
Originally Posted by rickg523
(Post 29386806)
And if getting off the plane on a flight between say ORD and FLL was delayed by CBP for the 90 minutes or more it would take to check a plane full of passengers who weren't expecting or prepared for a document check, we'd be hearing plenty of squealing right here.
https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/chec...flights-6.html |
Ari, you might want to fix that useful link...
I know it's only been a few months, but how is that lawsuit proceding? |
Originally Posted by nachtnebel
(Post 29391247)
Ari, you might want to fix that useful link...
I know it's only been a few months, but how is that lawsuit proceding?
Originally Posted by Vera M. Scanlon, USMJ on 01/25/2018
Defendant failed to participate in the discovery preparation process without justification. Defendant is on notice that it is expected to participate in the litigation and comply with the Court's orders. Such conduct is not expected to continue.
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