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TSA proposes obtaining facial and iris scans from TSA PreCheck applicants

TSA proposes obtaining facial and iris scans from TSA PreCheck applicants

Old Nov 29, 17, 7:43 am
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TSA proposes obtaining facial and iris scans from TSA PreCheck applicants

http://globalsecuritynewswire.com/20...check-program/

...PreCheck applicants will provide new forms of biometric data including facial and iris scans, in addition to the already existing fingerprint requirement.
Last day for comments, for what they are worth, is December 1st. https://www.regulations.gov/document...RDOC_0001-0374

What will the cost increase be and when is TSA going to ask for DNA in order to get PreCheck?
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Old Nov 29, 17, 8:27 am
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I'm a GE member with a foggy memory, but doesn't GE already require at least the iris scan?
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Old Nov 29, 17, 8:29 am
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I'd be willing to give a DNA sample if the agent requesting it was sexy and we were in a private room.
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Old Nov 29, 17, 8:33 am
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Originally Posted by JoeBas View Post
I'm a GE member with a foggy memory, but doesn't GE already require at least the iris scan?
I can't find any info that GE requires an iris scan but Nexus does if it is to be used for air travel.
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Old Nov 29, 17, 8:53 am
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Originally Posted by petaluma1 View Post
I can't find any info that GE requires an iris scan but Nexus does if it is to be used for air travel.
I have GE and got it with just a photograph of my face and some fingerprints.
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Old Nov 29, 17, 3:58 pm
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To be honest, this would likely help automate the identity check. If you can verify the person with a fingerprint or iris scan--given in Global Entry or Nexus (so those members should frankly already be able to go through lines like Clear), it would save time for everyone.
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Old Nov 29, 17, 10:06 pm
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I can't say I've seen significant delays at the TDC, so this seems more designed for LE and various US and Canadian alphabet agencies to better track their citizens' travels.

If this happens, it will be interesting to see DHS and NEXUS sort it out. Will NEXUS holders have to provide fingerprints or lose GE or possibly Precheck?
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Old Nov 30, 17, 6:25 am
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Originally Posted by xobile View Post
To be honest, this would likely help automate the identity check. If you can verify the person with a fingerprint or iris scan--given in Global Entry or Nexus (so those members should frankly already be able to go through lines like Clear), it would save time for everyone.
PreCheck already has fingerprints and doesn't need an iris or facial scanner at every checkpoint if fingerprint scanners were installed at each.
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Last edited by petaluma1; Nov 30, 17 at 6:40 am
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Old Nov 30, 17, 8:24 am
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Originally Posted by petaluma1 View Post
PreCheck already has fingerprints and doesn't need an iris or facial scanner at every checkpoint if fingerprint scanners were installed at each.
TSA knows that FBI employee Jonathan Goldsmith with GE/Precheck membership has a KTN that can be used by the ex-con, TSA-assaulting felon Jonathan Goldsmith and for the latter to get Precheck boarding passes if using the formerís birthdate and KTN. The TSA TDC is already subjected to some such activity.
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Old Nov 30, 17, 10:29 am
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Originally Posted by chollie View Post
I can't say I've seen significant delays at the TDC, so this seems more designed for LE and various US and Canadian alphabet agencies to better track their citizens' travels.

If this happens, it will be interesting to see DHS and NEXUS sort it out. Will NEXUS holders have to provide fingerprints or lose GE or possibly Precheck?

NEXUS already has fingerprints. You can argue the air version is either more invasive or the gold standard as it has iris scans too.
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Old Nov 30, 17, 11:06 am
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Originally Posted by xobile View Post
NEXUS already has fingerprints. You can argue the air version is either more invasive or the gold standard as it has iris scans too.
I think you missed my point.

Will NEXUS holders who currently enjoy GE/TSA Precheck be forced to get face scans or lose their GE/Precheck privileges?
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Old Nov 30, 17, 11:07 am
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Originally Posted by GUWonder View Post
TSA knows that FBI employee Jonathan Goldsmith with GE/Precheck membership has a KTN that can be used by the ex-con, TSA-assaulting felon Jonathan Goldsmith and for the latter to get Precheck boarding passes if using the former’s birthdate and KTN. The TSA TDC is already subjected to some such activity.
Having just spent 90 minutes on the road with some truly awful drivers, I'm stressed and maybe not thinking correctly, but I'm totally lost here. The only response I an come up with is: Are FBI Jonathan Goldsmith's fingerprints the same as felon Jonathan Goldsmith's?

Last edited by petaluma1; Nov 30, 17 at 11:19 am
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Old Nov 30, 17, 11:20 am
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Originally Posted by GUWonder View Post
TSA knows that FBI employee Jonathan Goldsmith with GE/Precheck membership has a KTN that can be used by the ex-con, TSA-assaulting felon Jonathan Goldsmith and for the latter to get Precheck boarding passes if using the formerís birthdate and KTN. The TSA TDC is already subjected to some such activity.
Is TSA so inept that they can't revoke a KTN?
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Old Nov 30, 17, 11:37 am
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Originally Posted by petaluma1 View Post
Having just spent 90 minutes on the road with some truly awful drivers, I'm stressed and maybe not thinking correctly, but I'm totally lost here. The only response I an come up with is: Are FBI Jonathan Goldsmith's fingerprints the same as felon Jonathan Goldsmith's?
What they may want is the photograph stored and the stored photo usable for the staffed TDC or (in lieu of manual TDC) for a sort of rolling, automated control for PC access. Fingerprints and iris scans could work but facial biometrics pull off a whole lot more for total surveillance than fingerprints and iris captures.
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Old Nov 30, 17, 11:46 am
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Originally Posted by petaluma1 View Post
Having just spent 90 minutes on the road with some truly awful drivers, I'm stressed and maybe not thinking correctly, but I'm totally lost here. The only response I an come up with is: Are FBI Jonathan Goldsmith's fingerprints the same as felon Jonathan Goldsmith's?
GUW is pointing out that, in the current screening environment, the TDC cannot positively differentiate between between two travelers that have the same name should one "borrow" the KTN of the other. Put another way, if one "dangerous" John Doe obtains pre-check status to transit the checkpoint by using the KTN of another pax with the same name the TSA currently has no way of determining the pre-check status is inappropriate.

Use of fingerprints, iris or facial recognition at the TDC point would mitigate this vulnerability.

Fair warning: DHS' collection of this biometric information will be available at will not only to myriad other government entities, particularly for criminal investigations, when those entities would not otherwise have access to the information, but also to private, commercial third-party entities. Depending upon one's view of civil liberties this expansion of government's ability to identify and locate persons in the country is "okay" or "an ominous development." Personally, I believe Mssrs. Zuckerburg, Gates, Pinchai and an enormous host others already have too much information about me of which I have no control and I do not trust them as far as I can throw them.

In my view, it is a further step down the slippery slope to a national database and the security services will be jumping for joy when they figure out a way to convince Congress to allow TSA to collect DNA as part of the KTN application process.
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Last edited by Section 107; Nov 30, 17 at 12:51 pm
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