MacLeanBarrier

This hijacking scenario aired last week in a new episode of the CBS TV show "SEAL Team". A hijacker vaults himself over the galley cart and breaches the cockpit:

https://youtu.be/keKf2un03wI

WillCAD

TV shows are not what I'd call convincing evidence of a real threat to aviation security, considering how many suitcase nukes and genetically engineered bioweapons and evil identical triplets have appeared on them over the years.

In next weeks's episode, Kristen wakes up to find J.R. in the shower and realizes that shooting him was a false memory implanted via post-hypnotic suggestion by Patrick Jane to hide the fact that Angus' father was running the Phoenix Foundation the whole time! From a bed and breakfast in Vermont, while married to a blond who wore a lot of sweaters!

FlyingHoustonian

Really? And your family/friends are not either? Then why link to a so-called "whistleblower" in your profile advertising for a fix to said mythical "problem"?
<redacted>.

I am curious how the "bad hombres" TM know when to be ready for the aisle to be open since the doors are not opened on every flight and an FA stands in front of the aisle which blocks the top above the cart and the entire aisle on most Boeing and Airbus single aisle products. So you posit that "bad hombres" TM are just flying on flights up front on the off chance their pilots will have to take a leak and open the door...then they will use their Hollywood training you note above to jump/vault the cart (and the FA's head) getting through the door, somehow getting it closed and dealing with the FO or PIC while everyone just stands around and watches even in the post 11 Sept 01 world? Fascinating hypothesis.

Boggie Dog

I was more impressed that the other "bad hombres" TM somehow managed to get several large pistols onboard and found room in the overheads to stash them with no one else seeing anything.

MacLeanBarrier

Really.

No family or friends own or work for any such company that manufacturers or owns cockpit Installed Physical Secondary Barriers.

I have a final Federal court order--ramanded from a U.S. Supreme Court affirmation (TSA's filed the appeal and lost)--declaring that my July 2003 disclosures are legally protected under the Whisteblower Protection Act of 1989 (5 U.S.C. § 2302):

https://www.washingtonpost.com/lifes...e23_story.html

FlyingHoustonian

Which is tangential and has no bearing on what is being discussed above. I am curious about your posit on how you think this threat is somehow real and relevant....<redacted>.

JamesBigglesworth

I saw a film once that had a Russian sub defect to the US and another where Air Force One had an escape pod. And I heard there was one about snakes on a plane. Did anyone ever solve the mystery of who was using magic to steal cutie marks from the ponies?

Xyzzy

I presume you posted that video to try and sell people on your proposed barrier. But the scene in that short video bears near zero resemblance to what really happens on US airlines. What really happens is that a crew member mans the cart and doesn't turn around at all while the cockpit door is open. In the video, the crew member places the cart and then turns around for a few seconds and knocks on the door. That never happens either. Anyone can knock on the door. In reality, the crew, while facing the passengers, calls the cockpit to verbally identify themselves and communicate whether it is safe to open the door. In reality, there are two crew members present outside -- one at the cart and one making the call. Lastly, the hijackers in the video grab machine guns that just happen to be in the verhead. So -- made for TV it might look like the takeover is easy. In reality, the procedure shown is nowhere near the procedure that US carriers use.

JamesBigglesworth

Better than that: he thinks his idea *needs* implementing (despite there never having been any event around carts) but in an earlier post he said that having a FA go into the cockpit is pointless (despite at least two events in the last 5 years where a pilot shut out the other pilot and subsequently crashed the plane, killing everyone on board.)

MacLeanBarrier

If a flight attendant was inside the cockpit in that tragic Germanwings flight—there would have been ABSOLUTELY NOTHING he or she could do stop him. Before the flight attendant would even think about finding the lock-override switch, the suicidal pilot would have the jet put into a fatal dive--or he could have first knocked out the flight attendant who will die anyways.

The solution would be a better engineered biometric override of the cockpit door lock from inside the cabin.

Again, you could go back to the switcheroo when the barriers get installed.

Boggie Dog

If a pilot is in a seat at the controls then how is that person going to attack the FA? Pilots are in relatively tight spaces, seated, with a console by one leg and a bulkhead on the other side of them. The FA would be slightly behind the pilots seats in a standing position which is a superior position to resists the pilots flaying arms. If the pilot is not seated then how would they put the aircraft in a dive?

If an aircraft is placed in a dive at altitude in a clean configuration (flaps and slats up, spoilers not deployed) then the aircraft will reach Vne (Speed, Never Exceed) well before contact with the ground and possibly suffer structural failure before impact. Would that satisfy a suicidal pilot? Perhaps, but would that be a terrorist act and to what point?

I have a question or two about the barrier. As I understand from your drawings the barrier is deployed by hooking straps into bulkhead fixtures on either side of the aisle. If this barrier needs to be protective against airborne agents how are the edges sealed, especially on the overhead and deck? Why couldn't the bad actor just unhook the barrier, even one side would be enough to deploy a chemical agent? Seems if the barrier can be deployed quickly it can also be recovered just as quickly.

A bigger issue in my mind, what protects passengers from a FAM who has some issues and decides to take out a few passengers then commit suicide? Money problems, family problems, or any other host of issues that can place undue stress on a person. What protects us from FAM's?

MacLeanBarrier

Exactly. A suicidal pilot can nose dive the aircraft long before that flight attendant gets his/her wits back no matter their position in the cockpit. Having a flight attendant in the cockpit is useless as most, if not all, are not trained in defensive measures or how to fly.

If anyone goes into the aisle and toward the deployed barrier, there is a motion alarm and peak-hole so that a person inside the galley can sound the alarm, close the door--sealing the cockpit, and emergency land. If any opioid got through the cracks and affected the pilots, there will be a box of NARCAN inside the cockpit to revive the pilots by a flight attendant or by each other.

It only takes a second or two to close the door and seal the cockpit after someone realizes there's an attack.

Finally, my new concept--filed with the U.S. Patent and Trademark Office--wedges into the entrance with no hooks and seals it 100%. Sort of like a cork.

Very good point. TSA already tried and failed to have me mentally committed [ https://www.nytimes.com/2018/04/25/u...tigations.html ]. Many credible experts believe that there should absolutely be no firearms in the passenger cabin. Those experts declare that law enforcement officers can have their firearms secured in the cockpit if they need to fly with them and immediately need them back after landing.

Boggie Dog

My question about a an out of balance FAM was not about a specific person just a highly unlikely event but one that could happen.

I have a solution that is cheaper and reduces needed manpower. Install a jump seat in the cockpit for the FAM to sit in during flight. The cockpit will never be down to one person this way and the FAM can take his weapon to the powder room if nature calls still leaving both pilots to duke it out should one try to commandeer the aircraft. The FAM could return to the cockpit well before the wings fold if the aircraft was in a dive.

This plan would also reduce the FAM teams to just one person letting the other 1 or 2 people that typically make up a FAM team man other flights. More flights covered, sweet!

MacLeanBarrier

Congress just introduced a bill for the IMMEDIATE installation of cockpit secondary barriers on ALL jets--new and old:

https://carson.house.gov/newsroom/pr...anced-aviation

Boggie Dog

Lots of bills get introduced, few get passed into law.