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Patting-down minor children without a parent being present

Patting-down minor children without a parent being present

Old Aug 13, 17, 9:40 am
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Patting-down minor children without a parent being present

I've read several complaints lately about TSA pulling minor children out of line and patting them down without a parent being present. I know that @ASKTSA would say that parents and children are never separated, but we all know that's another TSA lie. So is TSA committing a crime when patting down a minor child without the parent's knowledge?
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Old Aug 13, 17, 11:14 am
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I know what would (and should) happen if a school teacher or a stranger in a park or a parent ever spends two minutes rubbing a lightly-dressed thirteen-year-old boy's body, including rubbing the boy's genitals repeatedly with his face barely a foot away from the genitals he was stroking.

I am sure HQ is aware of every single complaint on twitter and FB. They know that TSOs are separating parents from children under 12 and subjecting the kids to gropes while they are separated from their parents. If HQ thought there was anything wrong with this, HQ would be getting the word out.

Ergo, whether it is SSI SOP or just the screener's final say, children will get separated from their parents and groped and there's nothing anyone can do about it.
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Old Aug 13, 17, 1:18 pm
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If it's happening it's despicable and police need to be involved.
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Old Aug 13, 17, 1:47 pm
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It's sad that we are training our kids (those privileged enough to fly) that if a stranger in uniform wants to take them somewhere Mom and Dad can't see them and touch and rub them in all 'those places' and stick their hands in their pants and sometimes even lift their clothes, it's not only OK, it's necessary to do everything the person in uniform tells them to do without objection or Mom and Dad might get arrested and taken to jail.
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Old Aug 15, 17, 2:05 am
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If they are 13 and older tsa does not need parents permission.
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Old Aug 15, 17, 5:45 am
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Originally Posted by caughtinthemiddle View Post
If they are 13 and older tsa does not need parents permission.
That may be TSA's position but doesn't make it right. As stated in another thread, TSA lacks a moral compass, so no surprise from TSA and TSA employees who violate children.
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Old Aug 15, 17, 7:00 am
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Originally Posted by caughtinthemiddle View Post
If they are 13 and older tsa does not need parents permission.
How would a TS"O" be able to tell how old a child is? Do they check their ID? I know some 13 year old's that look like 9 year old's. and some 10 year old's that look like 15 year old's. So how would they be able to tell...for sure?
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Old Aug 15, 17, 7:02 am
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Originally Posted by caughtinthemiddle View Post
If they are 13 and older tsa does not need parents permission.
I'd like to see some proof of that statement. Has TSA determined that because children 13 and over need to be fingerprinted and background checked to get PreCheck, that is also the age where they can touch a minor child without permission of a parent? Police officers at least need to have articulable suspicion before touching a child.
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Last edited by petaluma1; Aug 15, 17 at 9:30 am
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Old Aug 15, 17, 7:30 am
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Originally Posted by DeafBlonde View Post
How would a TS"O" be able to tell how old a child is? Do they check their ID? I know some 13 year old's that look like 9 year old's. and some 10 year old's that look like 15 year old's. So how would they be able to tell...for sure?
Publicly TSA says that children under 18 do not need to provide ID. I've always wondered what happens when a TSO doesn't believe the child's declared age.

Now that children 12 and under can use PreCheck with a qualifying adult, what happens if a TSO decides he doesn't believe the child is under 12? The child either produces acceptable ID (that he is supposedly not required to have) or everybody goes to the regular lines.
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Old Aug 15, 17, 8:58 am
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Originally Posted by DeafBlonde View Post
How would a TS"O" be able to tell how old a child is? Do they check their ID? I know some 13 year old's that look like 9 year old's. and some 10 year old's that look like 15 year old's. So how would they be able to tell...for sure?
Seems TSA has defined child for us. TSA does not require ID for those under 18 years old.

https://www.tsa.gov/travel/security-...identification

Adult passengers 18 and over must show valid identification at the airport checkpoint in order to travel.
So a person under 18 is not an adult by TSA's on rules. That makes them a child. Children should be exempt from pat downs unless some very strong evidence can be put forth showing just cause.

I'll stand by my position that only a person of low moral character would routinely pat down children, especially a TSA "Pat Down"!
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Old Aug 15, 17, 9:01 am
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Originally Posted by chollie View Post
Publicly TSA says that children under 18 do not need to provide ID. I've always wondered what happens when a TSO doesn't believe the child's declared age.

Now that children 12 and under can use PreCheck with a qualifying adult, what happens if a TSO decides he doesn't believe the child is under 12? The child either produces acceptable ID (that he is supposedly not required to have) or everybody goes to the regular lines.
This will result in the same well-reasoned "screener discretion" of which we are continually reminded.
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Old Aug 15, 17, 9:21 am
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Originally Posted by Boggie Dog View Post
Seems TSA has defined child for us. TSA does not require ID for those under 18 years old.

https://www.tsa.gov/travel/security-...identification



So a person under 18 is not an adult by TSA's on rules. That makes them a child. Children should be exempt from pat downs unless some very strong evidence can be put forth showing just cause.

I'll stand by my position that only a person of low moral character would routinely pat down children, especially a TSA "Pat Down"!
http://www.sandiegouniontribune.com/...htmlstory.html

(article is from 2016)

A Capri Sun juice pouch mistakenly left in a 10-year-old San Diego girl’s carry-on handbag led a TSA agent to subject the girl to almost two minutes of frisking and extra screening that lasted about an hour, her father said.
...
Authorities followed up with a swab of the bag and a false-positive test for explosives, then a nearly 2-minute-long full-body pat-down in which a female TSA agent touched the girl’s buttocks and groin repeatedly.
...
Authorities followed up with a swab of the bag and a false-positive test for explosives, then a nearly 2-minute-long full-body pat-down in which a female TSA agent touched the girl’s buttocks and groin repeatedly.
...
The agency adjusted its policies in 2011 to reduce the likelihood that children under 13 would be patted down during airport screening.

<deleted>
TSA was quite clever. TSA declared 'modified' gropes for children under 13, but since for security reasons they don't disclose the differences, no one can know if a screener followed the published rules or just used his 'screener discretion' to decide how much time to spend rubbing a child's genitals. Further, if you say your child is under 13 but your child doesn't have valid government-issued photo ID to prove it, then the screener has the final say as to whether the child receives a 'modified' grope or the full-on adult experience. The screener would assume the parent was lying about the child's age to sneak something hidden in the child's crotch through security, because nothing could be more suspicious than a parent showing up at the airport with a child who does not have a non-required ID.

It is disturbing that there are multiple reports going back years about screeners taking much more hands-on time with children than adults.

Last edited by TWA884; Aug 15, 17 at 11:02 am Reason: Copyright violation; please review FT Rule 9
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Old Aug 15, 17, 9:33 am
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Originally Posted by chollie View Post
http://www.sandiegouniontribune.com/...htmlstory.html

(article is from 2016)



TSA was quite clever. TSA declared 'modified' gropes for children under 13, but since for security reasons they don't disclose the differences, no one can know if a screener followed the published rules or just used his 'screener discretion' to decide how much time to spend rubbing a child's genitals. Further, if you say your child is under 13 but your child doesn't have valid government-issued photo ID to prove it, then the screener has the final say as to whether the child receives a 'modified' grope or the full-on adult experience. The screener would assume the parent was lying about the child's age to sneak something hidden in the child's crotch through security, because nothing could be more suspicious than a parent showing up at the airport with a child who does not have a non-required ID.

It is disturbing that there are multiple reports going back years about screeners taking much more hands-on time with children than adults.
All this leads right back to your "TSA is dishonest" thread.
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Old Aug 15, 17, 10:11 am
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I didn't choose that thread title, but I don't know a better one.

I am like 99.9999999999% of people who show up at the airport to catch a flight. I am not asking TSA to tell me what the rules are so I can circumvent them. I am asking to know the rules so I can COMPLY.

TSA claims it doesn't want checkpoint hassles. I don't want checkpoint hassles. The rules don't say it, but I have figured out that little girls and women are better off in pants than in skirts because TSOs don't like skirts. OK, we wear pants, not skirts. Anything to COMPLY and make our checkpoint transit as easy as possible for everyone.

Instead, TSA plays these guessing games where you don't know the rules until you show up. Maybe you get to keep your child in sight, maybe not. Maybe your 12-year-old girl with budding breasts gets her entire chest rubbed and there is nothing you can do to prepare her for it because you thought 'modified patdown' meant little girls going through puberty wouldn't get their chests rubbed like little boys'.
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Old Dec 20, 18, 12:05 pm
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Parents Rights TSA

Seeking to protect parentsí rights and empower families who are traveling this holiday season, The Rutherford Institute has issued guidelines on how parents can protect their children from excessive, intrusive, inappropriate and overtly intimate screening procedures and pat-down searches by Transportation Security Administration (TSA) agents.
https://rutherford.org/files_images/...Screenings.pdf

https://rutherford.org/files_images/...f_Children.pdf
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