San Diego teacher detained after refusing to answer BP question
From the LA Times:
http://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/l...story,amp.html "San Diego County middle school teacher Shane Parmely was detained for more than an hour by Border Patrol agents at a checkpoint in New Mexico because she refused to say whether she was a U.S. citizen. Parmely’s family helped her film the incident, which she posted Friday evening on her Facebook account in several segments that were widely shared. Parmely told Border Patrol agents that she believed she did not have to answer their questions. One agent showed her a card listing immigration law and a Supreme Court case decision that give Border Patrol agents authority to operate checkpoints within 100 miles of the border and to ask questions about citizenship without warrants..." She is white but she said she is sick of other people being hassled and profiled. Pretty gusty lady in my opinion. |
Well Done!
I'm surprised they didn't parade the dog around the car to "find" drugs.
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Originally Posted by mules
(Post 28606376)
One agent showed her a card listing immigration law and a Supreme Court case decision that give Border Patrol agents authority to operate checkpoints within 100 miles of the border and to ask questions about citizenship without warrants..."
Border Patrol may stop vehicles at certain checkpoints to: (1) ask a few, limited questions to verify citizenship of the vehicles’ occupants and (2) visually inspect the exterior of a vehicle. Agents may send any vehicle to a secondary inspection area for the same purpose: brief questioning and visual inspection. Agents should not ask questions unrelated to verifying citizenship, nor can they hold you for an extended time without cause. Even though you always have the right to remain silent, if you don’t answer questions to establish your citizenship, officials may detain you longer in order to verify your immigration status. |
Youtube has plenty of videos of drivers who encounter this "obedience test" of having to say whether he/she is a US citizen at these "internal border checkpoints" (oxymoron?).
Any 10-year old would ask-- what if the person just lies? Anyway, one that sticks out in my mind was Steven Anderson, I think he got to the checkpoint and kept asking "What is this? NAZI Germany? I didn't just cross in from Mexico. I thought I had a right to travel unmolested through the USA." They ended up smashing his door window and beating him up...and the "dog alert" thing was tied it as well. For those that don't know, the cops will egg on the dog to bark or squawk or wag its tail any time they want, as a means to circumvent the 4th Amendment. |
Originally Posted by yandosan
(Post 28606865)
For those that don't know, the cops will egg on the dog to bark or squawk or wag its tail any time they want, as a means to circumvent the 4th Amendment.
Good for this woman standing up for herself. Also good to see evidence of law enforcement mistreating white people. This really should be less of a race issue and more of a civilization vs police-state issue as the reality is that people of all races are being mistreated by the police and there is little to no police accountability. |
I've stopped at the checkpoint on I-25 in New Mexico. Why the need to not answer? I was on my way in seconds after answering a few questions. Pick your battles people... She was a moron in my opinion.
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I equate this incident to an DUI checkpoint. Officer asks if I've been drinking, I say no. He doesn't smell alcohol so I'm on my way in no time. Refusing to answer causes needless delays. A good friend of mine is such a prick with TSA that his wife refuses to fly with him if possible. We attend the same conferences, of which she often attends with him but she will often pick my flights instead of his just to avoid the scene he makes. As she puts it, it's way less stressful to travel with me. Plus I have club membership and she likes the free drinks.:) |
I associate it with 'papers, please'. I expect that in foreign dictatorships. I don't expect it and I despise it in my own country.
If it's a pointless trivial exercise, then why are taxpayers footing the bill for this cr*p? What is the ROI on setting up these stops to catch what they failed to catch at the border? 99% harassment of innocent citizens and waste of taxpayers' money, plus it reinforces the growing requirement to identify yourself and produce your documents at any time to any government actor who demands them. |
Originally Posted by chollie
(Post 28610158)
I associate it with 'papers, please'. I expect that in foreign dictatorships. I don't expect it and I despise it in my own country.
If it's a pointless trivial exercise, then why are taxpayers footing the bill for this cr*p? What is the ROI on setting up these stops to catch what they failed to catch at the border? 99% harassment of innocent citizens and waste of taxpayers' money, plus it reinforces the growing requirement to identify yourself and produce your documents at any time to any government actor who demands them. Take it up with the Courts and your local Congressman if you want change, pretty sure FT postings will do nothing. Back to the mom, she decided not answering the simple question and delaying her return (with kids in the car) was a high priority. She is the very teacher I would prefer my kids never be exposed to. |
Keep in mind about 200,000,000 people live within this "extra Constitutional" 100 mile zone. No idea how this can be compatible with the Bill of Rights. I bet this kooky rule was stapled onto one of those massive Omnibus Bills and no one noticed.
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Originally Posted by TWA884
(Post 28606556)
I was surprised to read in the ACLU's Know Your Rights with Border Patrol leaflet, which was linked in the cited article, that the Border Patrol agents' conduct was perfectly legal:
Originally Posted by COSPILOT
(Post 28609913)
I've stopped at the checkpoint on I-25 in New Mexico. Why the need to not answer? I was on my way in seconds after answering a few questions. Pick your battles people... She was a moron in my opinion.
Originally Posted by chollie
(Post 28609971)
Might want to read some history. Start about 1939, Europe. See how that 'pick your battles' appeasement approach worked out for folks.
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Originally Posted by PTravel
(Post 28610478)
I agree with you, Chollie. The difference between us and Nazi Germany, and the one thing that is supposed to keep us from becoming like Nazi Germany, is the Constitution and, particularly, the Bill of Rights. Though the Supreme Court has said otherwise, my professional opinion is that the Fourth and Fifth Amendments preclude this kind of compelled and coerced response (though I think the judicial rationale for sobriety checkpoints is correct). I applaud this teacher for her understanding, albeit visceral, of the bases ofr liberty set out in the Declaration of Independence and secured by the Bill of Rights.
I'd also love to walk right from my car to the gate to board the airplane without being stopped, but our unfriendly terrorist groups screwed that up decades ago. I'm not disagreeing with you, but how do you propose we minimize the entry of drugs, Illegal entry, human trafficking? |
Originally Posted by COSPILOT
(Post 28610249)
Except I've never been asked for any kind of ID, just a couple of questions and I'm on my way. Agents are looking for nervous behavior, potential drug running, etc. If people didn't commit illegal acts, there would be no need for this. Be upset with the people that run drugs, illegally cross the border, etc.
We were moving. Had 2 SUVs loaded with stuff, including pets, and one towing a trailer. Nothing said or anything more than a nod given.:rolleyes: |
Originally Posted by aztimm
(Post 28610681)
I went through one of these on the I-10 in west Texas... I don't think I even had to stop. It was just a nuisance, go from speeds of 75 mph down to 10 or so, slow enough so that an agent can look inside your vehicle. Then you move on.
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Originally Posted by TWA884
(Post 28610743)
There is/was a Border Patrol checkpoint on I-5 between San Diego and Los Angeles just south of San Clemente. I haven't seen it staffed in years. Years ago, when it was open, my experience was similar to yours. I will note, however, that I am caucasian/white, and I was allowed to pass without being stopped or asked about my citizenship even before I became a US citizen.
The fact that you can pretty much tell when it's not going to be staffed makes it useless to catch anyone knowingly trying to smuggle people through it. |
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