Is it wrong for Congress to order State Dept to invalidate passport to N. Korea?
Jul 21, 2017, 5:03 pm
#61
Original Poster
Join Date: Apr 2017
Posts: 180
State getting ready to have this geographical travel restriction in place on US passports just after 30 days of notice in the Federal Register is completed. North Korea will be the only such country with such such US restriction, but I would be surprised if this kind of thing wasn't attempted again with other countries too.
Will this ban only apply to US citizens who attempt to obtain North Korean visas and enter North Korea? Or it apply to dual/multi citizens who use his/her other passport to enter North Korea?
Jul 21, 2017, 5:11 pm
#62
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: DFW
Posts: 28,094
Would seem to me that anyone traveling on a US passport would fall under the restriction.
Jul 21, 2017, 5:29 pm
#63
Suspended
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Watchlisted by the prejudiced, en route to purgatory
Programs: Just Say No to Fleecing and Blacklisting
Posts: 102,095
A GTR applied to the US passport and use of the US passports. For those US citizens with non-US passports, this US GTR on US passports is not a show-stopper of any sort when it comes to those able and willing to go to North Korea on a non-US passport.
Jul 21, 2017, 5:34 pm
#64
Original Poster
Join Date: Apr 2017
Posts: 180
unsurprisingly, the legal maneuver will take in California... within the jurisdiction of the 9th. again.
I kind of see their point, however... does the government have the right to dictate where US citizen may or may not travel to? Sure, it's stupid and potentially dangerous to travel to North Korea... but how many US citizens have been arrested or killed in North Korea? Only 1 killed so far... and how many US citizens who are on holiday in Mexico and Europe are killed in crimes each year?
Jul 21, 2017, 8:20 pm
#65
Moderator: Travel Safety/Security, Travel Tools, California, Los Angeles; FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: LAX
Programs: oneword Emerald
Posts: 20,618
Which European governments are engaging in "hostage diplomacy" by detaining US citizens to be used as bargaining chips?
Jul 21, 2017, 10:00 pm
#66
Original Poster
Join Date: Apr 2017
Posts: 180
I was referring to the number of American tourists who get mugged/raped/murdered while on vacation in Mexico and European & Southeast Asian countries...
Jul 21, 2017, 11:07 pm
#67
Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 264
On another note, what does it even mean to prohibit the use of a passport to travel to NK? What's stopping NK from allowing travel without a passport for us citizens? Say allowing the use of a state ID + BC or verbal declaration like Canada once allowed. Then no "use" of a passport would be required to travel there.
Jul 21, 2017, 11:44 pm
#68
Suspended
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Watchlisted by the prejudiced, en route to purgatory
Programs: Just Say No to Fleecing and Blacklisting
Posts: 102,095
Canada still allows US citizens to be admitted with presentation of US proof of citizenship and of US state ID. North Korea could do the same, but the government of North Korea is so paranoid that I doubt that they'd want to go down that route for US citizens' tourism visits.
https://www.google.com/amp/observer....ian-jails/amp/
Russia, next to be off-limits for ordinary US passport users? I doubt it, even as the Russian government is a European government.
The number of American tourists visiting Mexico, European countries and Southeast Asian countries far exceeds the number of Americans who visit North Korea as tourists. Unless considering the denominator, the numerator doesn't signify much about the risk to American tourists. Also, the risk isn't necessarily about the safety/security of American tourists as much as the risk is to the American government that may be posturing for escalated military conflict and wants to try to avoid blame for endangering the health and well-being of Americans in a USG-targeted conflict zone during escalated military conflict.
https://www.google.com/amp/observer....ian-jails/amp/
Russia, next to be off-limits for ordinary US passport users? I doubt it, even as the Russian government is a European government.
The number of American tourists visiting Mexico, European countries and Southeast Asian countries far exceeds the number of Americans who visit North Korea as tourists. Unless considering the denominator, the numerator doesn't signify much about the risk to American tourists. Also, the risk isn't necessarily about the safety/security of American tourists as much as the risk is to the American government that may be posturing for escalated military conflict and wants to try to avoid blame for endangering the health and well-being of Americans in a USG-targeted conflict zone during escalated military conflict.
Last edited by GUWonder; Jul 21, 2017 at 11:58 pm
Jul 23, 2017, 7:49 am
#69
Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: LHR, HKG
Programs: gate lice
Posts: 315
Maybe none but so what? Banning US nationals from using a US passport to travel to north korea doesn't hurt NK, it's a drop in the bucket. What's the probability a us citizen gets detained/mugged/raped/killed in NK relative to other countries with no restrictions? As a traveler I don't particularly care whether it's the government or an individual who is likely to cause my suffering when making decisions.
We could expand this idea for other countries, too -- say Syria, and carve out an exception for aid workers, businesspeople, contractors, and journalists -- people with legitimate reasons for being there. Thrill-seeking is hardly a legitimate reason.
Jul 23, 2017, 8:49 am
#70
Suspended
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Watchlisted by the prejudiced, en route to purgatory
Programs: Just Say No to Fleecing and Blacklisting
Posts: 102,095
Instead of an outright ban on Americans traveling to NK, make it mandatory for U.S. nationals who intend to visit NK to attend a quick "orientation session" at the embassy in Beijing. There, they must sign a legal document stating they are fully aware of the risks of travel to NK and that they absolve the U.S. government of any responsibility to provide any consular assistance whatsoever.
We could expand this idea for other countries, too -- say Syria, and carve out an exception for aid workers, businesspeople, contractors, and journalists -- people with legitimate reasons for being there. Thrill-seeking is hardly a legitimate reason.
We could expand this idea for other countries, too -- say Syria, and carve out an exception for aid workers, businesspeople, contractors, and journalists -- people with legitimate reasons for being there. Thrill-seeking is hardly a legitimate reason.
Jul 23, 2017, 9:40 am
#71
A FlyerTalk Posting Legend
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: where the chile is hot
Programs: AA,RR,NW,Delta ,UA,CO
Posts: 41,668
I'm very much opposed to the making of " All Americans are equal but some Americans are more equal than other Americans" when it comes to free US citizens being able to get and use an ordinary US passport. As long as the purpose of the trip doesn't involve criminal activity, I say that it should not be the US government's business to decide which civilian purposes are legitimate and not for international travel by free US citizens; nor should the USG be restricting which countries are allowed and not allowed for travel by free US citizens.