Go Back  FlyerTalk Forums > Travel&Dining > Travel Safety/Security > Checkpoints and Borders Policy Debate
Reload this Page >

Inexplicably, Mrs Flies Gets ExtortionCheck

Inexplicably, Mrs Flies Gets ExtortionCheck

Old Jun 9, 2017, 11:38 am
  #16  
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Original Poster
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: An NPR mind living in a Fox News world
Posts: 14,153
Originally Posted by nachtnebel
And how well did that turn out for them, say in eastern europe or the soviet bloc? it's all part of the dustbin of history now.
It worked so well that the TSA copied it and employed it.

Originally Posted by GUWonder
The TSA wanted an effective means to co-opt and divide and conquer, and that's why the TSA tried to bribe us with something like this. The high/increased effectiveness of such kind of system doesn't bode well for travel freedoms/rights. The TSA's nomenklatura system has become effective, and with it the TSA's desire to ramp up the invasions has done anything but dropped.

Don't we realize yet that PreCheck passengers too can end up subjected to more intensive "patdowns" the same as non-PreCheck passengers?

While I'll game the benefits of being in the ranks of the nomenklatura, I won't silence my opposition to the system that wants me to silence dissent.
How many people, even on the forum, whine & complain about the ExtortionCheck line being held up by somebody who doesn't know the system or tries to take out their laptop and freedom bag?

I could do a search and come up with plenty of examples in TS&S of quotes like: "I didn't complain because I didn't want to lose my PreCheck privileges..."

This whole set-up has worked like a charm for the TSA.
FliesWay2Much is offline  
Old Jun 9, 2017, 12:57 pm
  #17  
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: SEA
Programs: Delta TDK(or care)WIA, Hilton Diamond
Posts: 1,869
Originally Posted by FliesWay2Much
Never! That is the "extortion" part of "ExtortionCheck". As many of us have noted in numerous threads, ExtortionCheck is identical to the Communist system of "privileges." The government creates an upper class which is dependent upon them for "privileges" that the government can revoke at any time for any, or no, reason. It's a proven method to silence dissent.
I don't consider NEXUS or GE to be in that category, because I think those are real, and there's a sensible reason for them. I have NEXUS, and it doesn't really exempt me from a rigorous screening at the border, because the normal screening is pretty quick - there's just a lot of people in line on a busy travel day, especially southbound, and NEXUS gets me into a special lane. Last year I went to and from Canada with a Chinese national in the car and crossed in the regular lane, and the questioning was just normal questioning and was directed to ferreting out real issues - is this going to be an overstay, are the two of you lying about how you know each other, etc?

My $50 payment and application basically just identifies me as a frequent crosser for whom it's worthwhile to do the application, compared to an infrequent crosser who doesn't want to bother.

I think there are real issues that immigration screening can help to catch - overstays, human trafficking, things like that. And I suppose the big concern is customs. I got a random check and search northbound in the NEXUS lane once - polite and uneventful, and at that time, I suppose necessary to keep the NEXUS lane from being used exclusively by marijuana smugglers.

GE is also for a real reason, I think.

But as to the TSA and calling it "Extortion," definitely I understand your reasoning, but MY experience with it is not that it functions as a THREAT to me, but that it REMOVES me from the obnoxious parts of the process so that I don't have the same EXPERIENCE as the non-bermenschen in the regular lanes. It isn't the threat (although it's there, certainly) that tends to keep the bermenschen compliant, it's that the things that happen to us (to me anyway) AREN'T unreasonable and so the only people in the bermenschen population who are going to struggle against the degeneration of passenger screening are people who are real activists.

The most irritating thing that's happened to me in the bermenschen lane is that I went through alone at JFK T4. Came to the document checker, passed through, went through the x-ray and metal detector, NOBODY else in line that whole time. That's unfair and irritating, but it's not unfair to ME. The only people who really fight against things like that are real activists those are few in number. Many passengers are removed from the population of people who might protest not because they feel a threat, but because there is nothing for them to protest AGAINST.

Since becoming an bermensch, with an bermenschen lane both ways, the only chances I have gotten have been trying to get the clerk to call in the hazmat team when she found bottle that I had put in there and forgotten to take out after a misconnect, brushing off a couple of guys who told me I couldn't take pictures of the checkpoint (I guess they were National Guard patrolling the airport or something) and presenting my driver's license at JFK T1 even though the clerk kept telling me she needed to see my passport. That caused her to call a supervisor, who called somebody on his walkie-talkie (who, I know not) and then looked at my driving license, scribbled on my boarding pass, and passed me through.

The worst abuses come not from the rules themselves, but from clerks that don't follow the rules. And now I have an extra layer shielding me from abusive clerks.

So that's a tough tough problem to solve if you want to get the public more activist about this issue. And lots of people believe with all their hearts that taking THEIR OWN shoes off makes them safer.

Originally Posted by FliesWay2Much
How many people, even on the forum, whine & complain about the ExtortionCheck line being held up by somebody who doesn't know the system or tries to take out their laptop and freedom bag?This whole set-up has worked like a charm for the TSA.
Are people actually complaining about that, or are they complaining that "their" line is being held up because there are too many people in it, and disguising that as a complaint about "clueless" people? I have been behind somebody that didn't know how things worked, maybe TWO times, and I quietly told them what to do. And when the clerks quietly tell people what to do, without yelling into the air, the passengers adapt just fine. I have had the thought "Oh, so many people in front of me, maybe I should try another checkpoint" - but I never thought of those people as "not belonging" and I said to myself, just stay here, you'll be through in 10 minutes or less, and this is a GOOD THING for this line to have more people in it.

Last edited by Carl Johnson; Jun 10, 2017 at 12:28 pm
Carl Johnson is offline  
Old Jun 9, 2017, 1:22 pm
  #18  
A FlyerTalk Posting Legend
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: where the chile is hot
Programs: AA,RR,NW,Delta ,UA,CO
Posts: 41,237
If there's a 'clueless' individual ahead of me in a Pre lane, I don't blame them for delays. They may have been given Pre for no reason. They may have enrolled in Pre but never had the good fortune of getting on their BP before. They may have enrolled in Pre but have only ever experienced Pre-lite or 'Pre closed'.

I blame the TSOs standing around watching and not addressing the situation like their counterparts do at foreign airports.
chollie is online now  
Old Jun 9, 2017, 9:34 pm
  #19  
FlyerTalk Evangelist
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 38,320
Originally Posted by chollie
If there's a 'clueless' individual ahead of me in a Pre lane, I don't blame them for delays. They may have been given Pre for no reason. They may have enrolled in Pre but never had the good fortune of getting on their BP before. They may have enrolled in Pre but have only ever experienced Pre-lite or 'Pre closed'.
Yeah, if you're old enough and the lines are light you generally get pre-check without ever enrolling. That's going to catch a lot of people who fly seldom and who aren't up with the latest rules. (Although it will mean less electronics, also. When we were 5 for 5 on pre-check taking her relatives to Canada I was carrying more such stuff than the rest of them combined.)
Loren Pechtel is offline  
Old Jun 10, 2017, 11:54 am
  #20  
Original Member
 
Join Date: May 1998
Location: PDX
Programs: TSA Refusenik charter member
Posts: 15,978
Originally Posted by nachtnebel
just buy it. It's only $85. or included free with Global Entry
No way. Never. Pay to play is undemocratic and divisive.
essxjay is offline  
Old Jun 10, 2017, 1:28 pm
  #21  
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 2,425
Originally Posted by essxjay
No way. Never. Pay to play is undemocratic and divisive.
property tax is likewise unjust--you never really own your house, the government does; you always owe rent on it to them and are thus a slave to them for your whole life.

Somehow, I always end up paying the tax.

It suits me fine that ya'll don't want pre-check. Makes it that much faster to get through it.
nachtnebel is offline  
Old Jun 10, 2017, 2:33 pm
  #22  
Original Member
 
Join Date: May 1998
Location: PDX
Programs: TSA Refusenik charter member
Posts: 15,978
I take your point about taxation in general, nacthebel, but let's not take this into OMNI/PR territory. Like many in TS/S-land I don't believe it's a proper for a gov't agency to stratify air travelers into haves and have nots through pay to play schemes. Because ultimately these p2p schemes create perverse incentives for gov't agencies to keep upgrading schemes regardless of effectiveness while facilitating an environment of fear and mistrust among travelers. Screen for IEDs and weapons and let us all be on our merry way without added fuss.
essxjay is offline  
Old Jun 10, 2017, 2:43 pm
  #23  
Suspended
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: DCA
Programs: UA US CO AA DL FL
Posts: 50,262
Works just fine for me and those for whom time is money in this free market system.

I am earning money doing productive work (or relaxing in a lounge) for pennies a flight (if you fly 2 round-trips per month, GE costs $0.84 per flight).

Even for someone making $20 / hour, GE pays off if it saves 5+ minutes per use. And that's before the jacket, shoes, 3-1-1 bag and idiot in front of you with the giant steel belt buckle who is surprised when he is asked to take it off.
Often1 is offline  
Old Jun 10, 2017, 3:03 pm
  #24  
Original Member
 
Join Date: May 1998
Location: PDX
Programs: TSA Refusenik charter member
Posts: 15,978
^^ This is what I meant by arbitrary stratification leading to divisiveness. People who don't fly often are viewed as idiots instead of merely inexperienced. No gov't agency should be promoting such stratification on what is essentially commercial air travel in name only.
essxjay is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Manage Preferences - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service -

This site is owned, operated, and maintained by MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. Copyright © 2024 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Designated trademarks are the property of their respective owners.