Let's Talk About Passport Cards!
May 31, 2017, 4:26 pm
#16
Original Poster
Join Date: May 2017
Location: JAX
Posts: 20
Non-aviation reply to US Passport Card use.
In California, at least, a Passport Card cannot be use as identification at the Department of Motor Vehicles (for acquiring a Drivers License) or as identification to a Notary Public, as it does not have a signature.
I use mine for TSA ID whenever I fly, have never had an issue.
In California, at least, a Passport Card cannot be use as identification at the Department of Motor Vehicles (for acquiring a Drivers License) or as identification to a Notary Public, as it does not have a signature.
I use mine for TSA ID whenever I fly, have never had an issue.
Where I'm from, Florida, the DMV accepts passport cards.
May 31, 2017, 4:44 pm
#17
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Petaluma, CA, USA
Programs: DL FO MM,
Posts: 102
They changed it! http://www.visaliatimesdelta.com/sto...ard/100268698/
Where I'm from, Florida, the DMV accepts passport cards.
Where I'm from, Florida, the DMV accepts passport cards.
The person quoted in the article states that the Passport Card is less expensive than a Passport. Don't you have to get/have a Passport to get a Passport Card?
It still cannot be used (in CA) as ID for Notarial acts, as it doesn't contain a signature.
Thanks, again.
May 31, 2017, 5:30 pm
#18
Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 264
Thanks for the update, very useful. I tried to use the Passport Card at the CA DMV in October, 2016 and was refused (I had misplaced my Passport). Many, many hoops to jump through to get a DL in CA.
The person quoted in the article states that the Passport Card is less expensive than a Passport. Don't you have to get/have a Passport to get a Passport Card?
It still cannot be used (in CA) as ID for Notarial acts, as it doesn't contain a signature.
Thanks, again.
The person quoted in the article states that the Passport Card is less expensive than a Passport. Don't you have to get/have a Passport to get a Passport Card?
It still cannot be used (in CA) as ID for Notarial acts, as it doesn't contain a signature.
Thanks, again.
No, you may apply for a passport card without a passport book. (And then can later use the card to apply for a book using the 'renewal' process)
Jun 1, 2017, 3:16 pm
#19
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: PDX
Posts: 908
I do agree about the notary; however, I was able to apply for a driver's license with just the passport card and the out-of-state license. It was back in 2011, and a DMV clerk first did not want to accept my passport card because she did not know what it was (not because of the lack of signature), but a supervisor was able to sort it out. I don't know if I would be able to apply for a license/id card with the passport card alone.
Jun 1, 2017, 11:46 pm
#20
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 5,662
Those that don't I demand to see THEIR ID as how do I know they're the person who's actually the Notary? Security goes both ways...
Jun 2, 2017, 7:09 pm
#21
Original Poster
Join Date: May 2017
Location: JAX
Posts: 20
I thought about this some and decided to write letters to my congressman, John Rutherford, and my senators, Bill Nelson and Marco Rubio, about the passport card. Here is the text:
Who here is willing to do the same and send a letter (not e-mail!) to your members of Congress about this matter? MSPeconomist, are you willing to? What about you, König, iamflyer, and JakiChan? I don't mind if you use text from my letter. I recognize it will probably just be read by poorly-paid interns, but if we don't try we'll never know if we can get some progress on this!
The United States Passport Card is a wallet-sized travel document issued by the Department of State usable for travel by land and sea to and from Canada, Mexico, the Caribbean and Bermuda. I am writing as your constituent in support of legislation that would (1) expand the usability of the card to include air travel and (2) modify future versions of the card to fully comply with ICAO 9303 and ISO/IEC 14443 standards.
In the 111th Congress, the Honorable George Voinovich, senator for Ohio, proposed the Passport Card Travel Enhancement Act of 2009. This bill would have allowed the Passport Card to be used to re-enter the United States from Canada, Mexico, the Caribbean and Bermuda. It is likely that countries that are willing to accept the Passport Card now for land and sea travel will be willing to do for air travel. For example, the 2008 U.S.-Canada Inter-Parliamentary Group agreed that Passport Cards should be usable to fly between the United States and Canada. When the card was introduced, the Canadian government made a comment on the State Department’s proposed rule to the same effect.
International Civil Aviation Organization standard 9303 defines standards for machine readable travel documents, including wallet-sized documents. The Passport Card largely meets these standards, however it falls short because it does not include the signature of the bearer. This can be accomplished by means of capturing the bearer’s signature and including it when the card is produced. However, it could also include a signature strip for the bearer to sign upon receipt, similar to a credit card or the Irish Passport Card. Bringing the elements of the card fully in line with international standards would make other countries more willing to accept it and enhance its utility as an identification document by being both photo and signature ID.
The current Passport Card includes a vicinity-read radio frequency identification chip that has a unique number that serves as a pointer to a record in a government database to expedite processing at points-of-entry. It contains no personal information. Although I believe this to be a lower priority than adding a signature, it believe it would be worthwhile to add a proximity read chip that complies with ISO/IEC 14443 like that in the passport book. This chip would contain a copy of the information on the card as well as a digital photograph of the bearer. Like that of the Irish Passport Card, it would be only readable at a distance of a couple of inches and not at all when the card is in its protective sleeve. This could be in addition to the vicinity-read chip or in its stead. Adding this would make the card even harder to counterfeit.
There does not appear to be legislation pending before the Congress that would bring the foregoing into effect. I strongly urge you to consider introducing such legislation and supporting any similar legislation proposed by other members of Congress.
I eagerly await your reply.
In the 111th Congress, the Honorable George Voinovich, senator for Ohio, proposed the Passport Card Travel Enhancement Act of 2009. This bill would have allowed the Passport Card to be used to re-enter the United States from Canada, Mexico, the Caribbean and Bermuda. It is likely that countries that are willing to accept the Passport Card now for land and sea travel will be willing to do for air travel. For example, the 2008 U.S.-Canada Inter-Parliamentary Group agreed that Passport Cards should be usable to fly between the United States and Canada. When the card was introduced, the Canadian government made a comment on the State Department’s proposed rule to the same effect.
International Civil Aviation Organization standard 9303 defines standards for machine readable travel documents, including wallet-sized documents. The Passport Card largely meets these standards, however it falls short because it does not include the signature of the bearer. This can be accomplished by means of capturing the bearer’s signature and including it when the card is produced. However, it could also include a signature strip for the bearer to sign upon receipt, similar to a credit card or the Irish Passport Card. Bringing the elements of the card fully in line with international standards would make other countries more willing to accept it and enhance its utility as an identification document by being both photo and signature ID.
The current Passport Card includes a vicinity-read radio frequency identification chip that has a unique number that serves as a pointer to a record in a government database to expedite processing at points-of-entry. It contains no personal information. Although I believe this to be a lower priority than adding a signature, it believe it would be worthwhile to add a proximity read chip that complies with ISO/IEC 14443 like that in the passport book. This chip would contain a copy of the information on the card as well as a digital photograph of the bearer. Like that of the Irish Passport Card, it would be only readable at a distance of a couple of inches and not at all when the card is in its protective sleeve. This could be in addition to the vicinity-read chip or in its stead. Adding this would make the card even harder to counterfeit.
There does not appear to be legislation pending before the Congress that would bring the foregoing into effect. I strongly urge you to consider introducing such legislation and supporting any similar legislation proposed by other members of Congress.
I eagerly await your reply.
Jun 2, 2017, 11:14 pm
#22
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: PDX
Posts: 908
Who here is willing to do the same and send a letter (not e-mail!) to your members of Congress about this matter? MSPeconomist, are you willing to? What about you, König, iamflyer, and JakiChan? I don't mind if you use text from my letter. I recognize it will probably just be read by poorly-paid interns, but if we don't try we'll never know if we can get some progress on this!
Jun 6, 2017, 11:21 am
#24
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: PDX
Posts: 908
There is not a lot of document geeks out there to make this petition noticeable. Even some social justice petitions gathering millions of signatures rarely get commented on by the current government, not to mention an ID card petition that would barely get a few thousand of them.
Jun 6, 2017, 11:25 am
#25
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Thanks for the update, very useful. I tried to use the Passport Card at the CA DMV in October, 2016 and was refused (I had misplaced my Passport). Many, many hoops to jump through to get a DL in CA.
The person quoted in the article states that the Passport Card is less expensive than a Passport. Don't you have to get/have a Passport to get a Passport Card?
It still cannot be used (in CA) as ID for Notarial acts, as it doesn't contain a signature.
Thanks, again.
The person quoted in the article states that the Passport Card is less expensive than a Passport. Don't you have to get/have a Passport to get a Passport Card?
It still cannot be used (in CA) as ID for Notarial acts, as it doesn't contain a signature.
Thanks, again.
Jun 6, 2017, 10:49 pm
#26
Join Date: Jun 2009
Programs: GE
Posts: 247
You do not need a passport to get a passport card. It costs a lot less, ideal for people who live in border areas and have no interest in air travel.
The DS-11 form even says: "The passport card is a U.S. passport issued in card format"
I have had good luck getting my Passport Card and GE card accepted most places. The only time my GE card was rejected outright by a federal officer was once to enter a Federal Building, which should have worked, but probably he had never seen one before.
The DS-11 form even says: "The passport card is a U.S. passport issued in card format"
I have had good luck getting my Passport Card and GE card accepted most places. The only time my GE card was rejected outright by a federal officer was once to enter a Federal Building, which should have worked, but probably he had never seen one before.
Jun 7, 2017, 2:25 am
#27
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Posts: 102,095
I've had CBSA at Canadian airports refuse to admit me into Canada when trying to enter with just a US passport card.
US WHTI prevented international travel by air with just a US passport card even before the first US passport cards were issued to ordinary US citizens.
Jun 7, 2017, 4:14 am
#28
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The US passport card is an acceptable ID for Notarial acts in CA EVEN without signatures.
If that notary refused, tell him/her check the most recent Notary Handbook.
Jun 8, 2017, 10:18 pm
#29
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: PDX
Posts: 908
They were not intended for air travel since the very beginning, so they could never be used on flights to Canada. Your sentence implies that they used to be accepted as travel documents for international air travel, but it's not the case.
Jun 8, 2017, 10:23 pm
#30
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: PDX
Posts: 908
Thanks for the information. I signed tons of forms last year in CA, and a notary agent once again demanded to see a document containing the signature. Well, I don't live there anymore, so it doesn't matter to me. Oregon notaries neither require the proof of signature nor a finger print.