Boggie Dog

Yes, TSA employees involved in weapons and drug trade.

iad2jfk

That seems to be correct...if:
-Devices are completely powered down
-No damage occurs in transit that can expose the LiOn battery components.

So if you have a battery installed in a device and the device isn't turned off properly, it could overheat. I've had this happen to my personal laptop when the device froze after receiving the command to shut down, therefore never shut down, and overheated in an unvented laptop bag.

As for damage in transport, an improperly packed tablet could break if not handled as a fragile device. The result would be just like a tablet/phone breaking in the seat recline mechanism. Once those chemicals leak out, you have a fire hazard.

So while unaccompanied batteries are dangerous in and of themselves, an installed battery can still be problematic.

Arthurrs

Perhaps in a larger laptop it's feasible to have enough space to fit a battery and a bomb, but it will be rather apparent in the xray.

But in an anorexic MacBook Pro or Surfacebook Pro, or an iPad? It will be nigh unto impossible to find a battery that fits the small space and not throw off the diagnostics of the computer when it powers up. Furthermore it wouldn't be too hard for xray manufacturers to implement a database of scanned electronics to compare to better than the trained eye. But I guess a unilateral ban is the easiest way to go....

Cue the uproar of the traveling public when they have to check their expensive electronics....

I haul a lot of electronics with me wherever I go, usually have $10-20K worth of stuff in my carryons. Glad I bought my Pelican Storm cases when I did, I have a feeling that FedEx is going to get a huge increase in business from people like me.

NickP 1K

Unless you are making a precision battery you would catch this on x-ray - granted you need x ray operators who have been TRAINED properly

The consistency of the battery back on a macbook air with a LOW tech x-ray scanner mostly not used today

The same pack - tampering will show a darker x-ray depth than an adjacent battery. The actual pack is here:

Explosive material will not be the same color as the rest of the battery pack due to material density and composition.

Actual Screener training for a tampered notebook: - you can see the inconsistent material even if someone does a great job you would see a battery with different colors to the operator showing different density across the battery module(s) - RED FLAG right there. There will need to be training on this no doubt.

notquiteaff

I have had a shutdown problem myself. I also had a 3rd party replacement battery that got very hot during "normal" use. I would think the vast majority of people today don't completely shut down their laptops anymore.

The FAA list of battery related incidents I linked to earlier today has an example of a laptop battery problem in the overhead compartment.

"While en route from Honolulu, HI to Atlanta, GA a fire was discovered in an overhead bin near seat 3J. The crew extinguished the flames, which were coming from a laptop. Three halon type fire extinguishers and two water type fire extinguishers were used. The laptop then was placed in a containment bag in a cooler with ice and monitored for the remainder of the flight. The flight continued to Atlanta and landed without further incident. The aircraft was inspected where minor damage to the overhead bin was found. Airline maintenance replaced the overhead bin."

This was on 12/3/2016.

notquiteaff

This is key. This is where we need to invest money. How much training do TSA screeners get? How often do they get updated training? How does it compare to screeners in other countries? How does it compare to the training required for, say, a cosmetologist license?

MSY-MSP

Sorry had to do this on my phone so apologies. Or maybe I better get used to this.

On the insurance front if the ban goes to just flights from europe to the us we end up going from about 18000 flights a year (the current ban total to the us) to about 400000 flights a year. If it goes to all flights into the us we end up at about 750000 flights a year. If it applies to both in and out of the us we are at about 1.6 million flights. If just us flights we end up at 8.7 million flights. If world wide we end up at 37.4 million flights or 102k a day. The relative number of flights has now gotten to a point that the question is not if but when will a flight go down because of this.

One thing about li-ion batteries is they run greater risks of going bad if they are damaged. The more a device is used the more likely it is to be damaged.

So so if the risk is 1:1million you have a fire once every 10 days (assuming worldwide ban). If 1:10m it's once ever 100 days. If it is 1:100m it's once every three years. Based on the FAA data I would guess it's between 5-10million flights a fire occurs. Statistically speaking.

With those odds I can see insurance companies, underwriters, reinsurers, lessors, lienholders and the like say no. The risk just got too high for the loss of a several million dollar asset. This is based off of an actual risk. Not a hypothetical risk that could be stopped. One can be. One can't.

invisible

There was time when on every vacation I was going I carried backpack with two Canon camera bodies, 5 L lenses and a tripod. All as carry-on. About 5 years ago I figured out that I am not in my early 20s any more and carrying 25lb backpack on every trip was not going to greatly contribute to easing my back pain. So I gave everything as a present to my brother. It it be his problem. Now all my photo equipment is iphone...

artemis

You'll have to pry my Olympus OMD-EM5 and EM1 out of my cold, dead hands.

Prior to this proposed ban, mirrorless systems were ideal for travel: much smaller and lighter than any DSLR, but nearly as capable. And not only is the picture quality better than a smartphone, but the replaceable battery means you can shoot all day (since you can put a fresh one in when the current one funs out of juice).

I am not looking forward to having only my phone for a camera.

notquiteaff

Same here. OM-D E-M5 Mark II. Just a month ago I got the Panny 100-400mm lens. Not sure that my Pixel smartphone is a suitable alternative.

artemis

No, it is not.

GUWonder

I wouldn't be surprised if battery damage is more likely in laptops that are checked in than laptops that aren't checked-in. That may mean a further move toward laptops in checked luggage policy would make things more risky in terms of battery fires/explosions until and unless the number of such items (and related ones) in checked luggage were to drop off significantly to levels below the current state of affairs.

sabbasolo

According to https://www.ausbt.com.au/usa-abandon...pe-usa-flights

the Europe travel ban proposal has been dropped

GUWonder

An expanded travel ban has not been dropped by the US. The US is still pushing hard to get it in place by getting most of the other major players to parrot the same line and approach as the US wants done. While the USG is facing push-back in different ways on this matter, it seems there is no agreement by most to let the ban expansion proposal to be dropped. They are working on coordination and messaging -- and that sort of speaks to how ridiculous the situation is when coordination and messaging (including of manipulating the public into buying into the ban) is seen as such a critical element.

sabbasolo

Yes, others are reporting the same thing, that the ban is still being pushed by the USA

http://blog.wandr.me/2017/05/us-eu-e...an-really-die/