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Electronic devices ban Europe to the US [merged threads]

Electronic devices ban Europe to the US [merged threads]

Old May 13, 17, 1:37 am
  #466  
 
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Originally Posted by MSY-MSP View Post
...The likely result is a unified approach to security worldwide on this. Similar to the liquid ban.
The liquid ban is not worldwide. The US (despite what some believe) cannot dictate to Australian airlines what to do in Australian airspace, or what to do on flights to Asia. Or tell European airlines what to do on flights to Africa.
Originally Posted by MSY-MSP View Post
So the pain is coming and i don't think there is anything to stop it. Even IACO acknowledges that this is a legitimate risk that needs to be managed.
Who is this IACO that you keep quoting?
Originally Posted by MSY-MSP View Post
In terms of implementation, I do believe that there will be a phase in of the rule. It all depends on what the EU does on their end. If they hold fast to the not in the cargo hold, we could see about a month delay in the implementation from when it is launched. The reactions of the Asian countries probably won't matter much at all.
Why would Europe knuckle under after a month? Why would Asian airlines' response not matter? You really have a distorted sense of America's influence in the world.
Originally Posted by mywanderlust View Post
But why only target the US? Wouldn't it be fairer to have all countries use the same security standards for all flights to anywhere? I'm offended as a US citizen.
Don't be offended; it's your own government's fault.

There are a number of possibilities. One is a mindset that says that terrorists want to kill Americans on American soil more than they want to kill foreigners (you know, like people in Paris or Brussels or Berlin or Stockholm). So the US has to have super-duper extra special security measures because they're the only really target. (Any sensible non-American 8-year-old can demolish this argument.)

A second is that the US government is more willing to spend squillions of taxpayer dollars on useless security theatre, and US taxpayers are less likely to object, than the gov't and citizens of other countries.

The third is that US airport security is the laughingstock of the rest of the world and there's no way we're following suit.

Pick one.
Originally Posted by J. Leslie View Post
You may want to consider shutting down your country for a bit - no one in or out - until the last couple of lines of your national anthem apply again. Just a thought.
Grammatically, the last couple lines (of the first verse) of the US national anthem is a question. To which the answer is currently a resounding "NO."

For that matter, the whole first verse of the anthem is a series of questions. Which, when you think about it, says something about US self-confidence.
Originally Posted by richarddd View Post
Security at some non-US airports seems much better than the TSA.
"Some"? I would say "most". Certainly in Australia, SE Asia and Europe.
Originally Posted by MSY-MSP View Post
However, there is enough evidence indicating that the theat is real.
Where is this evidence?
Originally Posted by phkc070408 View Post
I wonder if this is just a temporary thing, at least at this magnitude, until DHS, TSA, etc. can develop a better detection method for electronics disguised explosives.

Hopefully they realize the inconvenience this will cause and while they feel they need to act immediately, they can find a better solution to the problem long term.
Let's review the history of the liquids ban, which started in 2006 (11 years ago). (Copied from an earlier post; I'm not sure all the links still work. What with TSA's historical revisionism and all...)

2007: IdiotBoy Hawley: "Liquid limits to be eliminated soon, no, wait, uhh 2009, actually, I'm outta here."

TSA Spokes-idiot Sterling Payne in Sept 2009: "Liquid limits for at least another year."

Blogdad Bob in Oct 2009: "We haven't really figured out how to screen medically necessary liquids much less shampoo and water. Don't hold your breath."

Tagesschau.de: "Liquid limits to be eliminated in 2012."

Antonio Tajani: "Liquid limits to be eliminated soon, at least by 2014 (by which date I'll be outta here)."

So I guess in 2014 we'll know for sure whether they'll eliminate the liquid ban as promised...
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Old May 13, 17, 1:40 am
  #467  
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Originally Posted by Fredrik74 View Post
Why should we care about your cute little club? It's not applicable outside your border.
Indeed, in many ways. And being a member of GE doesn't mean anything in terms of being fully vetted.
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Old May 13, 17, 2:20 am
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Originally Posted by Fredrik74 View Post
Why should we care about your cute little club? It's not applicable outside your border.
I'm a UK citizen and a member and we don't even get cards.. so why would showing cards give them a reason to be exempt... say boarding in the UK, when the UK citizens who are members won't have that privilege.

better idea... scrap this stupid idea and have the different colour trays, for extra scanning
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Old May 13, 17, 3:34 am
  #469  
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It is a statement that US security works, no-one elses does. Stupid is as stupid does.
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Old May 13, 17, 4:18 am
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(1) My guess is that there was an attempt to get this rolled out for yesterday but the EU balked and the timetable went out the window.

(2) I've got to wonder what happens if the EU simply refuses to allow all the electronics in the hold leaving Europe (and indeed, if we might not see AUH fall in line with them). Setting aside the fact that this effectively runs afoul of some of the checked/hand baggage requirements as to what can go where (for example, BA's current rules bar spare laptop batteries from checked baggage), I suspect that there are quite a few Europeans who might be looking to stick it to the US at the moment and this would be a convenient place to do so: Making this stick to a couple of airports in the Middle East and primarily affecting state-owned carriers is one thing, making it stick to Europe when Europe could throw a spanner in the works and those governments aren't going to end up directly on the hook if non-compliance hits their airlines is another.
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Old May 13, 17, 5:45 am
  #471  
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I tell you what, if the US goes ahead with this stupid ban, there will be reprisals I think. Countries who previously allowed visa free entry into a country will be demanding US citizens also apply for visa's and attend interviews at their embassy's and to produce bank statements/income tax statements and proof of employment and residency before they allow visa's for american's to visit or enter their country in a tit for tat.
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Old May 13, 17, 6:40 am
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Originally Posted by wolf72 View Post
I tell you what, if the US goes ahead with this stupid ban, there will be reprisals I think. Countries who previously allowed visa free entry into a country will be demanding US citizens also apply for visa's and attend interviews at their embassy's and to produce bank statements/income tax statements and proof of employment and residency before they allow visa's for american's to visit or enter their country in a tit for tat.
And as an American, I say good for them! I'll get hurt, but if the government is going to be stupid and hateful, react in kind.

Last edited by dinoscool3; May 13, 17 at 6:44 am Reason: Removed political comment, thought I was in PR
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Old May 13, 17, 7:50 am
  #473  
 
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I think it was beyond the 'on the radar' phase. Thus why Delta had an actual printed sign ready to go. However the big 3 have major lobbying power AND the EU likely balked hard on this supposed change. The combination likely blew up the plan/roll out completely and might just make a re-think of the idea.
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Old May 13, 17, 8:41 am
  #474  
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Please follow the thread as it moves to the Travel Safety and Security forum, where there is an ongoing discussion on the laptop ban. Thank you.
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Old May 13, 17, 9:07 am
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Originally Posted by invisible View Post
Wonder - if significant number of passengers refuse to check their devices and/or start making protests at airports - what then?
Or pilots refuse to fly planes with hundreds of batteries in the hold? How about pushback from the pilots?
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Old May 13, 17, 9:29 am
  #476  
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Originally Posted by invisible View Post
Wonder - if significant number of passengers refuse to check their devices and/or start making protests at airports - what then?
Vote — or protest — with your wallet.

When enough people do that, there will be changes.
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Old May 13, 17, 9:34 am
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Europeans would have to stop traveling to the US. American tourism would have to be hit.

No reason not to expand the ban to Asia either. Terrorists can fly East as well as West.
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Old May 13, 17, 9:35 am
  #478  
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Originally Posted by wolf72 View Post
I tell you what, if the US goes ahead with this stupid ban, there will be reprisals I think. Countries who previously allowed visa free entry into a country will be demanding US citizens also apply for visa's and attend interviews at their embassy's and to produce bank statements/income tax statements and proof of employment and residency before they allow visa's for american's to visit or enter their country in a tit for tat.
Sure, that might happen - but the people who are making these decisions are NOT going to be personally impacted. It will just hurt more innocent peons.
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Old May 13, 17, 9:47 am
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Originally Posted by wco81 View Post
Europeans would have to stop traveling to the US. American tourism would have to be hit.
There are other reasons for them to do this anyway.

http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer...mp-effect.html
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Old May 13, 17, 9:48 am
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Originally Posted by Canarsie View Post
Vote or protest with your wallet.

When enough people do that, there will be changes.
I'm not sure fewer foreigners coming to the US or fewer US persons visiting other countries will matter to those who make policy, even if it does hurt the economy. Especially if my only effective vote is to travel within the US but not outside it.
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