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Electronic devices ban Europe to the US [merged threads]

Electronic devices ban Europe to the US [merged threads]

Old May 11, 2017, 11:43 am
  #241  
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Originally Posted by brownie1967
Air travel is fine. The key is to ban passengers. They are the cause of the problem. If planes flew empty, save for pilots and cabin crew, the skies would be safe for all.
You need to ban pilots too. They sometimes crash planes.

It might also be a good idea to extend the ban to FAs as they're sometimes crazy. Plus, at many airports they don't go through the same screening as passengers.
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Old May 11, 2017, 11:45 am
  #242  
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Originally Posted by Big_Foot
A good question. I assume as this is your own gear,
there is no way to be charged. Must be an option as you fill the paperwork.
There should be an "American goods returned" option, but you might need to prove that you owned the equipment previously and especially did not purchase it overseas (even if it previously entered the USA).
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Old May 11, 2017, 11:49 am
  #243  
 
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On "True" TPACS?

And what about SFO-SYD-SFO; more grist for the Rumor Mill?
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Old May 11, 2017, 11:50 am
  #244  
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Originally Posted by markle
Spoke with a friend who works for a TATL carrier. They're expecting this and made plans for when/if this is introduced.

Whilst this will of little comfort... at least it seems that the airlines are expecting this and have plans in place.
Interesting because I believe every airline clearly states they have extremely limited liability when high value or fragile items are checked. And highly recommend they not be checked because they absolutely will not guarantee their safe transport.
And they all list photo gear and computers as those kind of items.
So another cash grab in the works? Maybe a highly overpriced transit insurance. Say 10% of declared value? 100 bucks to transport 1000 bucks of laptop/camera? No consequential damage coverage of course.
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Old May 11, 2017, 11:55 am
  #245  
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Originally Posted by leungy18
If it does happen, EU countries should treat US pax the way the US treats everyone else.

At customs, add a U.S. nationals line that U.S. nationals are forced to use. Just one officer. Make them wait 3 hours to enter. Why not?
Most EU countries including UK, Switzerland, etc. already do this. They have some short and fast lines for EU passports (plus Switzerland) and another very long and slow line for all other passports.
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Old May 11, 2017, 12:07 pm
  #246  
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Originally Posted by leungy18
If it does happen, EU countries should treat US pax the way the US treats everyone else.

At customs, add a U.S. nationals line that U.S. nationals are forced to use. Just one officer. Make them wait 3 hours to enter. Why not?
No.

The people responsible for these decisions and the people who carry them out are always exempt from the nastiness they produce. Wishing for retaliatory actions against other innocent pax whose only crime is wanting to fly is not cool. None of us innocent pax have done anything wrong.

I think this is all just leading up to a HUGE money grab. The US has started this mess, and the only way out of it is going to be US-produced, US-patented expensive technology (whether or not it is effective). We will install the equipment in all US airports and then insist that any foreign airport that doesn't buy the US equipment will have to subject US-bound pax through a deliberately punitive process.
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Old May 11, 2017, 12:11 pm
  #247  
 
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I had a thought, and based on some things I am reading I am wondering what would the result be on this. It appears that the EU is considering banning the transport of large numbers of batteries in the hold of the aircraft. This actually makes sense since the pilots don't want them in the hold and they are a clear hazardous material. I wonder if this could be the straw that delays things. the US bans laptops in the cabin and the EU bans them in the hold. What happens then?
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Old May 11, 2017, 12:18 pm
  #248  
 
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Originally Posted by MSPeconomist
There should be an "American goods returned" option, but you might need to prove that you owned the equipment previously and especially did not purchase it overseas (even if it previously entered the USA).
There is. It's CBP Form 4457 - Certificate of Registration for Personal Effects Taken Abroad. You need to get it endorsed by a CBP official prior to departure. It's a straightforward process, but it does take time if you're not departing from an airport with USCBP onsite.
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Old May 11, 2017, 12:24 pm
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How is Delta going to protect my iPad in the cargo hold? Electronic stuff is not covered in the CoC. I really want to know this.
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Old May 11, 2017, 12:35 pm
  #250  
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Originally Posted by CosmosHuman
How is Delta going to protect my iPad in the cargo hold? Electronic stuff is not covered in the CoC. I really want to know this.
That's the biggest question I have. After years of being told "Do NOT check valuables. If you do, we are not responsible", suddenly we're supposed to trust them to do the right thing - on the cheap.
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Old May 11, 2017, 12:39 pm
  #251  
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This is my biggest concern. I can live without a device other than my phone with me on board and in the airport (although I would hope that lounges would bring back computers if this happens--for example the DL SCs at NRT used to have lots and lots of apple machines), but I'm concerned about it being stolen from checked luggage or damaged in transit.
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Old May 11, 2017, 12:59 pm
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I have a brand new MacBook and iPad mini. This is getting to be outrageous. I'm GE as well. I'm well vetted. Sorry but not a DYKWIA, but very concerned.
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Old May 11, 2017, 1:05 pm
  #253  
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All I carry are two P&S cameras, but they're not quuiiiite small enough to be smaller than a phone.

Think of all the 'used' electronics that will be showing up on Craig's List and Ebay.
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Old May 11, 2017, 1:14 pm
  #254  
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Originally Posted by artemis
There's that silly "logic" stuff again! What does logic have to do with security theater?! Government policies aren't supposed to actually make sense!

A part of me almost hopes this DOES spread to affect domestic US flights. I've always been struck by the reality that those who defend airport security theater the most are generally the least-traveled - but even those folks may occasionally want to fly to Vegas or Disney World. If they had to check their iPads in their suitcase only to have them stolen or broken with no compensation forthcoming from the airlines, that might just wake them up. (Not to mention that even those who don't fly would be greatly affected by the total havok such a ban would cause in the US economy.)
Honestly, from what I've seen of the public's reaction to airport security in the past, there may be some grumbling, but more than a few will stand up and say, "Hey, can't be too careful."

Originally Posted by JoeBas
Seriously. Our entire security scheme now seems to be depending on the terrorists not realizing that the Earth is ROUND...
It's official: Kyrie Irving can't be a terrorist.

Originally Posted by FliesWay2Much
The ban as it stands right now, or even the EU ban, has little impact on the U.S. airline industry because everything is happening overseas. As others have stated, the real impacts and push-backs will occur if or when the ban is instituted on outgoing flights and domestic flights.

Having said this, I think the entrepreneurial spirit in the U.S. and like-minded countries will simply invent ways around the ban:
  • Widespread use of loaner laptops. There will be kiosks at most major airports where you can rent one for your flight and drop it off at your destination.
  • Insurance companies rushing to promote and sell theft policies
  • Mailing services at airports, just like what exists now for pocket knives
  • Tracking devices and a location service to find missing/stolen hardware
  • Airlines themselves might even rent you a laptop for your flight -- free for premium passengers

I came up with these ideas in about 5 minutes, and I'm not that good. Business travel cannot and will not stop or even noticeably decrease. Businesses and airlines will simply adapt. The TSA will adapt. When enough people in the right positions complained about draconian screening, the TSA invented ExtortionCheck and a lot of you climbed over each other to be the first in line and gladly pay the $85.

If enough people complain about a domestic laptop ban, the TSA will simply invent something else to placate the important people. For example, all they would have to do is to invent some sort of additional screening gadget only for ExtortionCheck participants. They wave the magic wand, declare your laptop to be wholesome and good, place a special sticker on it, and you're happy as a clam.
For leisure purposes, that might work, but it won't help business traffic.

First, even if I could save all my data into a thumb drive, or whatever they're called, and plug it into a loaner, my company would never let me. Not in a million, zillion years. They'll say (correctly, I might add) that they will have no way of knowing what spyware is on the loaner.

Second, I couldn't even check my laptop if I wanted to. My employer wouldn't allow it. Too much of a chance of damage, theft, etc. That policy won't change.

Originally Posted by susiesan
Will you have to pay $25 to check in your devices like you have to do now for a suitcase on domestic flights?
Why $25? They'll likely be able to charge you $50. They'll promise to insure you or whatever, and use a tiny portion of that $50 to pay an insurance company.They'll keep the rest as profit. As an added bonus, when your electronics inevitably get lost, they'll just hand you a piece of paper with the insurance company's phone number and say, "Call them. It's not our problem."

Fortunately, I don't think that this laptop ban will go into place or, if it does, that it will only last a short period of time. And I realize that I'm in the minority on this opinion. Copy this paragraph now so you can repost it and laugh at me in a year.

Why do I believe this?

This measure would be an unmitigated disaster for airlines. Business travel would die overnight. Poof, gone. Sure, some of it would survive or recover. But the impact would be an extinction level event for these guys. Their margins aren't great on a good day; lose more than a few people from the front of a plane on an airline and they're bleeding red ink over the Atlantic.

Ready to invest in Air Canada? Not so fast, mes amis. No way that the US doesn't bully Canada, not to mention Mexico, into joining us.

But it won't just be the airlines. With business travel coming to a halt, business itself would soon follow. Again, we're not talking 100%, but let's look at who this would impact. Some of it's easy. Hotels, rental cars and large theme parks with a mouse would feel it immediately. It would flow through to restaurants, telecom, etc. Do I need to go on?

There's no way that the airlines or, for that matter, any member of the business community could let a laptop ban survive for more than a few days. They've gotta be up in somebody's grill right now. My guess is that MSP has it right: There will be a miracle security device that will make some contractor a lot of money.

But let me ask one question: A mid-air explosion would obviously be tragic and result in hundreds of deaths. But are we stopping people carrying laptops on the street? In movie theaters? In hotels? How about Amtrak? Because if a terrorist blew up an explosive device under Penn Station, the catastrophe would dwarf that of a mid-air explosion.

Mike
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Old May 11, 2017, 1:24 pm
  #255  
 
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Originally Posted by mikeef
But let me ask one question: A mid-air explosion would obviously be tragic and result in hundreds of deaths. But are we stopping people carrying laptops on the street? In movie theaters? In hotels? How about Amtrak? Because if a terrorist blew up an explosive device under Penn Station, the catastrophe would dwarf that of a mid-air explosion.
Smart terrorists know there's no reason to go to extreme lengths to get a bomb onto a plane. Just wheel a 30" suitcase stuffed with shrapnel and explosives into the airport and detonate it in a crowd. Do it on a very high travel day, like the day before Thanksgiving, when the airport will be absolutely packed with people. Ideally hit several airports, train stations, and bus stations simultaneously.

Can you imagine the panic that would result?

The terrorists we actually need to worry about are evil, not stupid. Underwear Bomber and his ilk are mostly noteworthy for their complete lack of success.
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