Electronic devices ban Europe to the US [merged threads]
#241
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It might also be a good idea to extend the ban to FAs as they're sometimes crazy. Plus, at many airports they don't go through the same screening as passengers.
#242
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There should be an "American goods returned" option, but you might need to prove that you owned the equipment previously and especially did not purchase it overseas (even if it previously entered the USA).
#244
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And they all list photo gear and computers as those kind of items.
So another cash grab in the works? Maybe a highly overpriced transit insurance. Say 10% of declared value? 100 bucks to transport 1000 bucks of laptop/camera? No consequential damage coverage of course.
#245
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Most EU countries including UK, Switzerland, etc. already do this. They have some short and fast lines for EU passports (plus Switzerland) and another very long and slow line for all other passports.
#246
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The people responsible for these decisions and the people who carry them out are always exempt from the nastiness they produce. Wishing for retaliatory actions against other innocent pax whose only crime is wanting to fly is not cool. None of us innocent pax have done anything wrong.
I think this is all just leading up to a HUGE money grab. The US has started this mess, and the only way out of it is going to be US-produced, US-patented expensive technology (whether or not it is effective). We will install the equipment in all US airports and then insist that any foreign airport that doesn't buy the US equipment will have to subject US-bound pax through a deliberately punitive process.
#247
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I had a thought, and based on some things I am reading I am wondering what would the result be on this. It appears that the EU is considering banning the transport of large numbers of batteries in the hold of the aircraft. This actually makes sense since the pilots don't want them in the hold and they are a clear hazardous material. I wonder if this could be the straw that delays things. the US bans laptops in the cabin and the EU bans them in the hold. What happens then?
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#250
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That's the biggest question I have. After years of being told "Do NOT check valuables. If you do, we are not responsible", suddenly we're supposed to trust them to do the right thing - on the cheap.
#251
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This is my biggest concern. I can live without a device other than my phone with me on board and in the airport (although I would hope that lounges would bring back computers if this happens--for example the DL SCs at NRT used to have lots and lots of apple machines), but I'm concerned about it being stolen from checked luggage or damaged in transit.
#253
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All I carry are two P&S cameras, but they're not quuiiiite small enough to be smaller than a phone.
Think of all the 'used' electronics that will be showing up on Craig's List and Ebay.
Think of all the 'used' electronics that will be showing up on Craig's List and Ebay.
#254
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There's that silly "logic" stuff again! What does logic have to do with security theater?! Government policies aren't supposed to actually make sense!
A part of me almost hopes this DOES spread to affect domestic US flights. I've always been struck by the reality that those who defend airport security theater the most are generally the least-traveled - but even those folks may occasionally want to fly to Vegas or Disney World. If they had to check their iPads in their suitcase only to have them stolen or broken with no compensation forthcoming from the airlines, that might just wake them up. (Not to mention that even those who don't fly would be greatly affected by the total havok such a ban would cause in the US economy.)
A part of me almost hopes this DOES spread to affect domestic US flights. I've always been struck by the reality that those who defend airport security theater the most are generally the least-traveled - but even those folks may occasionally want to fly to Vegas or Disney World. If they had to check their iPads in their suitcase only to have them stolen or broken with no compensation forthcoming from the airlines, that might just wake them up. (Not to mention that even those who don't fly would be greatly affected by the total havok such a ban would cause in the US economy.)
The ban as it stands right now, or even the EU ban, has little impact on the U.S. airline industry because everything is happening overseas. As others have stated, the real impacts and push-backs will occur if or when the ban is instituted on outgoing flights and domestic flights.
Having said this, I think the entrepreneurial spirit in the U.S. and like-minded countries will simply invent ways around the ban:
I came up with these ideas in about 5 minutes, and I'm not that good. Business travel cannot and will not stop or even noticeably decrease. Businesses and airlines will simply adapt. The TSA will adapt. When enough people in the right positions complained about draconian screening, the TSA invented ExtortionCheck and a lot of you climbed over each other to be the first in line and gladly pay the $85.
If enough people complain about a domestic laptop ban, the TSA will simply invent something else to placate the important people. For example, all they would have to do is to invent some sort of additional screening gadget only for ExtortionCheck participants. They wave the magic wand, declare your laptop to be wholesome and good, place a special sticker on it, and you're happy as a clam.
Having said this, I think the entrepreneurial spirit in the U.S. and like-minded countries will simply invent ways around the ban:
- Widespread use of loaner laptops. There will be kiosks at most major airports where you can rent one for your flight and drop it off at your destination.
- Insurance companies rushing to promote and sell theft policies
- Mailing services at airports, just like what exists now for pocket knives
- Tracking devices and a location service to find missing/stolen hardware
- Airlines themselves might even rent you a laptop for your flight -- free for premium passengers
I came up with these ideas in about 5 minutes, and I'm not that good. Business travel cannot and will not stop or even noticeably decrease. Businesses and airlines will simply adapt. The TSA will adapt. When enough people in the right positions complained about draconian screening, the TSA invented ExtortionCheck and a lot of you climbed over each other to be the first in line and gladly pay the $85.
If enough people complain about a domestic laptop ban, the TSA will simply invent something else to placate the important people. For example, all they would have to do is to invent some sort of additional screening gadget only for ExtortionCheck participants. They wave the magic wand, declare your laptop to be wholesome and good, place a special sticker on it, and you're happy as a clam.
First, even if I could save all my data into a thumb drive, or whatever they're called, and plug it into a loaner, my company would never let me. Not in a million, zillion years. They'll say (correctly, I might add) that they will have no way of knowing what spyware is on the loaner.
Second, I couldn't even check my laptop if I wanted to. My employer wouldn't allow it. Too much of a chance of damage, theft, etc. That policy won't change.
Fortunately, I don't think that this laptop ban will go into place or, if it does, that it will only last a short period of time. And I realize that I'm in the minority on this opinion. Copy this paragraph now so you can repost it and laugh at me in a year.
Why do I believe this?
This measure would be an unmitigated disaster for airlines. Business travel would die overnight. Poof, gone. Sure, some of it would survive or recover. But the impact would be an extinction level event for these guys. Their margins aren't great on a good day; lose more than a few people from the front of a plane on an airline and they're bleeding red ink over the Atlantic.
Ready to invest in Air Canada? Not so fast, mes amis. No way that the US doesn't bully Canada, not to mention Mexico, into joining us.
But it won't just be the airlines. With business travel coming to a halt, business itself would soon follow. Again, we're not talking 100%, but let's look at who this would impact. Some of it's easy. Hotels, rental cars and large theme parks with a mouse would feel it immediately. It would flow through to restaurants, telecom, etc. Do I need to go on?
There's no way that the airlines or, for that matter, any member of the business community could let a laptop ban survive for more than a few days. They've gotta be up in somebody's grill right now. My guess is that MSP has it right: There will be a miracle security device that will make some contractor a lot of money.
But let me ask one question: A mid-air explosion would obviously be tragic and result in hundreds of deaths. But are we stopping people carrying laptops on the street? In movie theaters? In hotels? How about Amtrak? Because if a terrorist blew up an explosive device under Penn Station, the catastrophe would dwarf that of a mid-air explosion.
Mike
#255
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But let me ask one question: A mid-air explosion would obviously be tragic and result in hundreds of deaths. But are we stopping people carrying laptops on the street? In movie theaters? In hotels? How about Amtrak? Because if a terrorist blew up an explosive device under Penn Station, the catastrophe would dwarf that of a mid-air explosion.
Can you imagine the panic that would result?
The terrorists we actually need to worry about are evil, not stupid. Underwear Bomber and his ilk are mostly noteworthy for their complete lack of success.