TSA wants to get more intimate when doing passenger pat downs.
#31
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 3,526
Perhaps I'm unduly optimistic, but this doesn't seem like it will last.
The current body scanner plan is fairly stupid: go through the scanner, a piece of lint shows up in your breast pocket, then someone presses on the pocket to ensure that it's lint, not a machine gun.
The new procedure is laughably sinister: go through the scanner, lint shows you up in your pocket, so your entire body must swept up and down, swabbed, and frisked and re-frisked, even though the scanner pointed out the area of the "anomaly."
It's so time and labour intensive that they can't pull it off.
The quote about "cognitive strain" was unfortunate. TSA staff are begging and begging for respect. Now their own agency has made it clear that they do not believe that their staff have the intellectual capacity for the job. That comment could easily exacerbate tension at the checkpoint.
There are significant problems with public humiliation, but I also think such lengthy and intrusive searches point to the elephant in the room: "What are they looking for?" The answer is: "We'll know when we find it."
The current body scanner plan is fairly stupid: go through the scanner, a piece of lint shows up in your breast pocket, then someone presses on the pocket to ensure that it's lint, not a machine gun.
The new procedure is laughably sinister: go through the scanner, lint shows you up in your pocket, so your entire body must swept up and down, swabbed, and frisked and re-frisked, even though the scanner pointed out the area of the "anomaly."
It's so time and labour intensive that they can't pull it off.
The quote about "cognitive strain" was unfortunate. TSA staff are begging and begging for respect. Now their own agency has made it clear that they do not believe that their staff have the intellectual capacity for the job. That comment could easily exacerbate tension at the checkpoint.
There are significant problems with public humiliation, but I also think such lengthy and intrusive searches point to the elephant in the room: "What are they looking for?" The answer is: "We'll know when we find it."
I, too, had noticed the "cognitive strain" comment and immediately thought well that certainly is an admission that your staff can't do their jobs.
The other comment that is drawing much criticism is that this procedure is being instituted because of failures in 2015. It's taken TSA two years to come up with a procedure?
I wonder if screeners volunteer to do these pat downs or if they are required to do them whether they want to do so or not. If they are all volunteers, I would question their reasons for volunteering.
Deterrent effect hasn't seemed to keep people from bringing guns and other "dangerous items" in their carry-ons.
Last edited by TWA884; Mar 5, 2017 at 10:34 am Reason: Merge consecutive posts
#32
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Please explain how that would happen.
#33
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Scanners alarm on lint or absolutely nothing about 50% of the time so there are an awful lot of people going to be sexually assaulted over nothing. And there are going to be, hopefully an lot of very angry passengers.
I, too, had noticed the "cognitive strain" comment and immediately thought well that certainly is an admission that your staff can't do their jobs.
The other comment that is drawing much criticism is that this procedure is being instituted because of failures in 2015. It's taken TSA two years to come up with a procedure?
I wonder if screeners volunteer to do these pat downs or if they are required to do them whether they want to do so or not. If they are all volunteers, I would question their reasons for volunteering.
I, too, had noticed the "cognitive strain" comment and immediately thought well that certainly is an admission that your staff can't do their jobs.
The other comment that is drawing much criticism is that this procedure is being instituted because of failures in 2015. It's taken TSA two years to come up with a procedure?
I wonder if screeners volunteer to do these pat downs or if they are required to do them whether they want to do so or not. If they are all volunteers, I would question their reasons for volunteering.
Last edited by TWA884; Mar 5, 2017 at 10:38 am Reason: Comment on moderation
#35
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#36
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In the pre-PreCheck days, I was getting my opt-out pat down.
TSA: did you remove everything from your pockets ?
me: yes
TSA gives my front the back of the hands swipe, then focuses on something on my left front, near the pocket and starts feeling it with his fingers. Says "are you sure there's nothing in your pocket ?"
me: yes
TSA (still fondling the object with his fingers): "then what's this ?"
me: that's my dick
TSA: you don't have to be rude.
me: I'm not the one who grabs dicks for a living
TSA: you're clear, have a good trip.
We can debate whether a barrier of denim and nitrile glove constitute "direct" contact, but it was definitely overt, conducted in front of anyone who cared to watch.
TSA: did you remove everything from your pockets ?
me: yes
TSA gives my front the back of the hands swipe, then focuses on something on my left front, near the pocket and starts feeling it with his fingers. Says "are you sure there's nothing in your pocket ?"
me: yes
TSA (still fondling the object with his fingers): "then what's this ?"
me: that's my dick
TSA: you don't have to be rude.
me: I'm not the one who grabs dicks for a living
TSA: you're clear, have a good trip.
We can debate whether a barrier of denim and nitrile glove constitute "direct" contact, but it was definitely overt, conducted in front of anyone who cared to watch.
#38
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Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: DFW
Posts: 28,083
In the pre-PreCheck days, I was getting my opt-out pat down.
TSA: did you remove everything from your pockets ?
me: yes
TSA gives my front the back of the hands swipe, then focuses on something on my left front, near the pocket and starts feeling it with his fingers. Says "are you sure there's nothing in your pocket ?"
me: yes
TSA (still fondling the object with his fingers): "then what's this ?"
me: that's my dick
TSA: you don't have to be rude.
me: I'm not the one who grabs dicks for a living
TSA: you're clear, have a good trip.
We can debate whether a barrier of denim and nitrile glove constitute "direct" contact, but it was definitely overt, conducted in front of anyone who cared to watch.
TSA: did you remove everything from your pockets ?
me: yes
TSA gives my front the back of the hands swipe, then focuses on something on my left front, near the pocket and starts feeling it with his fingers. Says "are you sure there's nothing in your pocket ?"
me: yes
TSA (still fondling the object with his fingers): "then what's this ?"
me: that's my dick
TSA: you don't have to be rude.
me: I'm not the one who grabs dicks for a living
TSA: you're clear, have a good trip.
We can debate whether a barrier of denim and nitrile glove constitute "direct" contact, but it was definitely overt, conducted in front of anyone who cared to watch.
#39
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Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: DFW
Posts: 28,083
TSA apparently knows that passengers will consider the new Grope Down as a sexual assault.
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/artic...port-pat-downs
Apparently if a person gets any kind of pat down now the "Sexual Assault Grope Down" will be used. So lint in a pocket, SAGD. Credit card in a pocket SAGD. All because TSA screeners cannot be expected to figure out what screening steps are appropriate in each case. Any claims by TSA of having a "Well Trained Screener Force" have been completely shredded.
Lastly, this article seems to confirm that the Grope Down can be done in public view regardless of what some TSA screener says.
I maintain if you think you have been assaulted then report it to the police. Just because TSA says they can do something doesn't make it true.
TSA Warns Local Police About Its New Airport Pat-Downs
But the agency does expect some passengers to consider the examination unusual. In fact, the TSA decided to inform local police in case anyone calls to report an “abnormal” federal frisking, according to a memo from an airport trade association obtained by Bloomberg News.
The pat-down change, first reported Friday by Bloomberg News, is “intended to reduce the cognitive burden on [employees] who previously had to choose from various pat-down procedures depending on the type of screening lane,” the ACI-NA wrote in its notice.
The TSA has all pat-downs conducted by an employee of the same gender as the traveler and allows a passenger to request a private area for the screening, as well as to have a witness present. Likewise, the traveler can request that the pat-down occur in public view.
#40
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The only question is how long will it be until a victim of a pedophile ends up having their private parts groped by an adult yet again, this time in plain sight at an airport and done by a person in a TSA uniform using this "new standard" "pat-down".
#41
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They've only succeeded in further lengthening the range for which I am willing to drive instead of fly.
#42
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As I usually travel by myself, I plan on requesting a uniformed officer to witness any pat down I may receive going forward. I will also go down like a lightly tapped footballer begging the official for a penalty in stoppage time.
They've only succeeded in further lengthening the range for which I am willing to drive instead of fly.
They've only succeeded in further lengthening the range for which I am willing to drive instead of fly.
#43
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 3,526
Looks like TSA is trying to head complainers off at the pass:
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/artic...port-pat-downs
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/artic...port-pat-downs
In fact, the TSA decided to inform local police in case anyone calls to report an “abnormal” federal frisking, according to a memo from an airport trade association obtained by Bloomberg News.
#44
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I generally try to avoid shaming the individual screener, as in my experience most are even less thrilled than we are about the whole process. I had one guy who, when I told him that he was patting me down because his co-worker would not let me use the Precheck line as I was shepherding someone travelling with me through the elite line, even though my boarding pass clearly stated Precheck, causing me to use normal security and opt out, he was really pissed at his co-worker . That said, imagine being told by your boss that you must thoroughly touch and feel someone's genitals or you'll be fired...the worst that generally would happen to us as passengers is not flying that day if we decline the "full" screening. I don't envy someone who is coerced into committing sexual assault at threat of job loss. I don't have a lot of sympathy for most TSA employees, as most had a good idea of what they were getting themselves into, but I have a nonzero level of sympathy, barring the few who feel "a calling" and seem to feel they are the only thing preventing disaster. I sense that, for the majority, this is the best paying job they can find (logically, would you work at TSA frontline if you could do almost any other job? I'd rather be a plumber.). But with these changes, my level of sympathy is looking more and more to be asymptotically approaching zero...
#45
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 3,526
I generally try to avoid shaming the individual screener, as in my experience most are even less thrilled than we are about the whole process. I had one guy who, when I told him that he was patting me down because his co-worker would not let me use the Precheck line as I was shepherding someone travelling with me through the elite line, even though my boarding pass clearly stated Precheck, causing me to use normal security and opt out, he was really pissed at his co-worker . That said, imagine being told by your boss that you must thoroughly touch and feel someone's genitals or you'll be fired...the worst that generally would happen to us as passengers is not flying that day if we decline the "full" screening. I don't envy someone who is coerced into committing sexual assault at threat of job loss. I don't have a lot of sympathy for most TSA employees, as most had a good idea of what they were getting themselves into, but I have a nonzero level of sympathy, barring the few who feel "a calling" and seem to feel they are the only thing preventing disaster. I sense that, for the majority, this is the best paying job they can find (logically, would you work at TSA frontline if you could do almost any other job? I'd rather be a plumber.). But with these changes, my level of sympathy is looking more and more to be asymptotically approaching zero...