TSA wants to get more intimate when doing passenger pat downs.
#721
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Location: DFW
Posts: 28,010
I commented at the TSA Blog about the 13 year of girl that was Sexually Assaulted by TSA screeners. My comment was apparently not allowed. Guess TSA doesn't want additional public dissemination of this crime.
Then I read post 721 about the lady being forced by TSA to remove a sanitary product. That right there goes beyond any reasonable process. If she was that suspicious why was she allowed to leave the airport after being refused screening?
And how can a person fly and travel freely if TSA won't do their part and clear travelers? You can fly but we won't clear you means you can't fly.
I would retain a lawyer were I her but we all know that the justice system is rigged against travelers when TSA is the accused. Government has unlimited taxpayer funds to stonewall any attempt at justice.
Then I read post 721 about the lady being forced by TSA to remove a sanitary product. That right there goes beyond any reasonable process. If she was that suspicious why was she allowed to leave the airport after being refused screening?
And how can a person fly and travel freely if TSA won't do their part and clear travelers? You can fly but we won't clear you means you can't fly.
I would retain a lawyer were I her but we all know that the justice system is rigged against travelers when TSA is the accused. Government has unlimited taxpayer funds to stonewall any attempt at justice.
#723
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: BOS and vicinity
Programs: Former UA 1P
Posts: 3,723
From: https://www.lewrockwell.com/lrc-blog...arly-arrested/ (bolding mine)
As a matter of process, this family was traveling with a 10 year old child. Shouldn't both parents and the thirteen-year-old have received an automatic pass from the NoS since part of the family was under 12?
Somebody should crowdfund a trip to Auschwitz, Dachau, and Nuremburg for this supervisor so he can learn the history of what happens when government employees fall back on following policy. (And no, I'm not saying the abuses of TSA and the abuses of Nazi Germany are equal, but there are significant parallels in the mentality of the low-level clerks.)
Meanwhile my 10 year old daughter had already been sent through the detector and was far out of our sight on the other side of the machine
The supervisor then turned to me and explained that once a child turns 13 that child is considered an adult and thus subject to a full body pat-down if the child refuses to go through the scanner.
I threw him off guard, asking him, “are you a father?” I repeated the question.
“I am a grandfather,” he replied.
“How would you feel if your young daughter or grand-daughter was forced to submit to a woman grabbing her genitals?”
His face darkened: “I wouldn’t like it; I don’t like it at all.”
“It’s sick what our country has become,” I added.
“It sure is,” he agreed. “But there’s nothing I can do about it. It’s policy.”
I threw him off guard, asking him, “are you a father?” I repeated the question.
“I am a grandfather,” he replied.
“How would you feel if your young daughter or grand-daughter was forced to submit to a woman grabbing her genitals?”
His face darkened: “I wouldn’t like it; I don’t like it at all.”
“It’s sick what our country has become,” I added.
“It sure is,” he agreed. “But there’s nothing I can do about it. It’s policy.”
#724
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 3,526
The supervisor then turned to me and explained that once a child turns 13 that child is considered an adult and thus subject to a full body pat-down if the child refuses to go through the scanner.
#725
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Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: DFW
Posts: 28,010
Just a few yards from where I sit right now is a federal facility housing a large number of sex crime offenders, many of which would be crimes against children. Why are TSA screeners getting away with what others go to prison for?
#726
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 3,526
Another woman required to drop her pants
https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=1927040180686457&id=126801010 710392&ref=page_internal
Her prosthetic device and her hands were swabbed but someone determined that the top of her leg also had to be swabbed! When will this stop?
Her prosthetic device and her hands were swabbed but someone determined that the top of her leg also had to be swabbed! When will this stop?
#727
Moderator: Travel Safety/Security, Travel Tools, California, Los Angeles; FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: LAX
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Posts: 20,474
I-Team: Woman with prosthetic leg says she felt humiliated at TSA checkpoint
She was at the Minneapolis/ St.Paul International Airport when she said she was told agents would have to swab the top part of her prosthetic leg. “They swabbed the bottom of my leg and my hands,” Bowser said. “Then they said they needed to swab the top of my socket.”
She said she told the agent no. "I said if you have to swab the top of my leg that means I have to take my pants down and I don’t want to do that,” Bowser said. “That’s part of my body. I felt that was dehumanizing.”
<snip>
She added that a TSA agent was told if she didn’t comply the police would be called and she would not be allowed to fly.
She said she told the agent no. "I said if you have to swab the top of my leg that means I have to take my pants down and I don’t want to do that,” Bowser said. “That’s part of my body. I felt that was dehumanizing.”
<snip>
She added that a TSA agent was told if she didn’t comply the police would be called and she would not be allowed to fly.
#728
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Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: DFW
Posts: 28,010
There have been far too many reports of this type in recent weeks to not believe that TSA has doubled down on unwarranted aggressive physical pat downs and strip searches or TSA screeners have gone rogue, tossing out the SOP manuals. Either way, Congress should act quickly to limit TSA physical pat downs. My belief, if a TSA screener believes a person has contraband hidden on their person then the screening has concluded and police should be summoned. There is no point at which a TSA screening that requires genital contact or lifting/removal of clothing is acceptable. I would also make TSA responsible for all costs incurred by a traveler should TSA be wrong in their assessment if travel plans are interrupted.
#729
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Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: where the chile is hot
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I would really like to hear a member of Congress ask TSA HQ how many times contraband has been found concealed between someone's butt cheeks, in their groin, or under their breasts.
Because the truth is, the answer must be zero, because otherwise I'm quite sure TSA would make it a 'big catch' story to remind people why it is necessary (only in the US) to grope people's privates.
There are too many reports recently, at too many different airports. This is clearly not the latest class out of the 'academy', this is the result of some kind of directive from the top.
Because the truth is, the answer must be zero, because otherwise I'm quite sure TSA would make it a 'big catch' story to remind people why it is necessary (only in the US) to grope people's privates.
There are too many reports recently, at too many different airports. This is clearly not the latest class out of the 'academy', this is the result of some kind of directive from the top.
#730
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Greensboro
Programs: TSA
Posts: 2,424
I would really like to hear a member of Congress ask TSA HQ how many times contraband has been found concealed between someone's butt cheeks, in their groin, or under their breasts.
Because the truth is, the answer must be zero, because otherwise I'm quite sure TSA would make it a 'big catch' story to remind people why it is necessary (only in the US) to grope people's privates.
There are too many reports recently, at too many different airports. This is clearly not the latest class out of the 'academy', this is the result of some kind of directive from the top.
Because the truth is, the answer must be zero, because otherwise I'm quite sure TSA would make it a 'big catch' story to remind people why it is necessary (only in the US) to grope people's privates.
There are too many reports recently, at too many different airports. This is clearly not the latest class out of the 'academy', this is the result of some kind of directive from the top.
#731
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Join Date: Sep 2006
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If you file the complaint with TSA, you risk getting put on the 'troublemaker' list and singled out for regular future harassment.
I think TSA HQ was well aware of what it was doing when it announced that practice. "Go ahead, make a complaint, we dare you. And we will remember you next time you try to fly."
This is in keeping with my experience when my medical nitroglycerine pills were confiscated. My BP and ID were copied, a report was made, and I was warned that any future 'incidents' involving me trying to take my prescription meds with me could result in me being on the 'no fly' list. I would never make a complaint again because I am certain that doing so will put me on the 'watch list' or the 'no fly list'.
Years ago, a much-loved sister had a horrible episode at SAT. A TSO who posted here at the time wanted to know her name and flight details. Interestingly enough, she wasn't interested in knowing which checkpoint or in physical descriptions of the screeners involved. She seemed less interested in viewing tapes or watching how certain screeners treated wheelchair-bound pax generally than she did in tracking down my family member and putting them on some kind of punitive list. Moot point, because that sister has never flown since, the experience was so terrifying.
I think TSA HQ was well aware of what it was doing when it announced that practice. "Go ahead, make a complaint, we dare you. And we will remember you next time you try to fly."
This is in keeping with my experience when my medical nitroglycerine pills were confiscated. My BP and ID were copied, a report was made, and I was warned that any future 'incidents' involving me trying to take my prescription meds with me could result in me being on the 'no fly' list. I would never make a complaint again because I am certain that doing so will put me on the 'watch list' or the 'no fly list'.
Years ago, a much-loved sister had a horrible episode at SAT. A TSO who posted here at the time wanted to know her name and flight details. Interestingly enough, she wasn't interested in knowing which checkpoint or in physical descriptions of the screeners involved. She seemed less interested in viewing tapes or watching how certain screeners treated wheelchair-bound pax generally than she did in tracking down my family member and putting them on some kind of punitive list. Moot point, because that sister has never flown since, the experience was so terrifying.
#732
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Join Date: Mar 2008
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TSOs catch things in those areas more often than one may think. The vast majority of the time, it is something that a passenger is just trying to keep safe, like money, or jewelry, or even important papers. Most of the time it is not a big story, because it is much more common than most folks think. The only time I would anticipate we would even have a story about it would involve a firearm or something more dangerous. I am at a loss to explain the current uptick, as the process has not changed recently. I take each of these comments the same way - unverified until we have facts/info to initiate the investigative process. I still want the organization to treat each complaint, case or situation exactly the same and investigate each of these claims to the fullest. One problem is that people go onto social media sites and make a statement, rather than filing a complaint to the system for TSA to use in order to get to the bottom of it. When TSA has a standalone comment on Twitter that says something like "I was stripsearched by TSA at LAX" without a flight number, airline, time frame or terminal - how is TSA going to be able to effectively address that or investigate? LAX has 7 terminals, and all of them are in perpetual motion. Without specifics, the comment is just someone making a statement that is unverifiable. Which brings me back around to asking all of you to have anyone that makes these types of comments to file the complaint with TSA. TSA can not address the issue if they do not know it has happened.
A person that places something under clothing for safe keeping isn't doing anything wrong or suspicious. I hardly believe TSA could count such item as a find.
When I see the term "organization" I think of organized crime, which is a pretty accurate description of TSA and its employees. I wish I felt differently but history shows an "organization" that either can't or just refuses to demand ethical behaviors of its employees.
You complain about victims of TSA going to social media to report abuses by TSA screeners. From my personal experience I know exactly why that happens. Just like the rest of TSA, the TSA complaint system is nonfunctional. My personal experience taught me that TSA expends more effort to discredit a person who files a complaint than finding out the truth or just flat out covers up wrong doing by TSA employees. The only hope a person has of TSA taking any real action is to go public.
If TSA wants more information about this " unverified" incident all TSA need do is contact the person who made the report.
Last edited by Boggie Dog; Sep 2, 2018 at 2:04 pm
#733
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 3,526
TSOs catch things in those areas more often than one may think. The vast majority of the time, it is something that a passenger is just trying to keep safe, like money, or jewelry, or even important papers. Most of the time it is not a big story, because it is much more common than most folks think. The only time I would anticipate we would even have a story about it would involve a firearm or something more dangerous. I am at a loss to explain the current uptick, as the process has not changed recently. I take each of these comments the same way - unverified until we have facts/info to initiate the investigative process. I still want the organization to treat each complaint, case or situation exactly the same and investigate each of these claims to the fullest. One problem is that people go onto social media sites and make a statement, rather than filing a complaint to the system for TSA to use in order to get to the bottom of it. When TSA has a standalone comment on Twitter that says something like "I was stripsearched by TSA at LAX" without a flight number, airline, time frame or terminal - how is TSA going to be able to effectively address that or investigate? LAX has 7 terminals, and all of them are in perpetual motion. Without specifics, the comment is just someone making a statement that is unverifiable. Which brings me back around to asking all of you to have anyone that makes these types of comments to file the complaint with TSA. TSA can not address the issue if they do not know it has happened.
“Pat-downs result in the discovery of knives and other dangerous items carried on a passenger’s person on a daily basis,” spokesman Mike England said. “They are a valuable tool in keeping our skies safe.”
Filing a complaint with the TSA is an exercise in futility, because the TSA will NEVER accept responsibility. I always advise people to file their complaints about poor treatment with the DHS Inspector General.
P.S. Most people are afraid to file a complaint with the TSA, <redacted>. They are afraid of being put on a "list" - and with the recent news of "Quiet Skies" and TSA's list of disruptive flyers, I don't blame them.
Last edited by TWA884; Sep 15, 2018 at 2:08 pm Reason: Privacy (FT Rule 21) / Personal exchange (FT Rule 12.2)
#734
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Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 38,320
One problem is that people go onto social media sites and make a statement, rather than filing a complaint to the system for TSA to use in order to get to the bottom of it. When TSA has a standalone comment on Twitter that says something like "I was stripsearched by TSA at LAX" without a flight number, airline, time frame or terminal - how is TSA going to be able to effectively address that or investigate? LAX has 7 terminals, and all of them are in perpetual motion. Without specifics, the comment is just someone making a statement that is unverifiable. Which brings me back around to asking all of you to have anyone that makes these types of comments to file the complaint with TSA. TSA can not address the issue if they do not know it has happened.
To post on social media might eventually get Congress to act.
#735
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Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: An NPR mind living in a Fox News world
Posts: 14,153
TSOs catch things in those areas more often than one may think. The vast majority of the time, it is something that a passenger is just trying to keep safe, like money, or jewelry, or even important papers. Most of the time it is not a big story, because it is much more common than most folks think. The only time I would anticipate we would even have a story about it would involve a firearm or something more dangerous. I am at a loss to explain the current uptick, as the process has not changed recently. I take each of these comments the same way - unverified until we have facts/info to initiate the investigative process. I still want the organization to treat each complaint, case or situation exactly the same and investigate each of these claims to the fullest. One problem is that people go onto social media sites and make a statement, rather than filing a complaint to the system for TSA to use in order to get to the bottom of it. When TSA has a standalone comment on Twitter that says something like "I was stripsearched by TSA at LAX" without a flight number, airline, time frame or terminal - how is TSA going to be able to effectively address that or investigate? LAX has 7 terminals, and all of them are in perpetual motion. Without specifics, the comment is just someone making a statement that is unverifiable. Which brings me back around to asking all of you to have anyone that makes these types of comments to file the complaint with TSA. TSA can not address the issue if they do not know it has happened.