TSA wants to get more intimate when doing passenger pat downs.
Feb 27, 2018, 8:30 am
#691
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: DFW
Posts: 28,090
I don't think a person of good conscience would do such things.
Feb 27, 2018, 11:12 am
#692
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 574
What I fail to understand is how these TSA screeners can go home everyday and face their family, husbands, wives, and especially their children after doing these crotch gropings.
I don't get too many crotch gropings, but I find the whole TSA screening process sickening, not just what they do but the way they do it. Last time I traveled one of them at JFK shouted at me "Get against the glass [divider]!" when I veered a couple feet astray, like a cop shouting demands at a fleeing suspect. If you got treated like that in a restaurant you'd speak to the manager and ask for your money back. Somehow we've been trained to think this is okay.
I don't get too many crotch gropings, but I find the whole TSA screening process sickening, not just what they do but the way they do it. Last time I traveled one of them at JFK shouted at me "Get against the glass [divider]!" when I veered a couple feet astray, like a cop shouting demands at a fleeing suspect. If you got treated like that in a restaurant you'd speak to the manager and ask for your money back. Somehow we've been trained to think this is okay.
Last edited by yandosan; Feb 27, 2018 at 11:17 am
Feb 27, 2018, 12:07 pm
#693
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 3,526
What I fail to understand is how these TSA screeners can go home everyday and face their family, husbands, wives, and especially their children after doing these crotch gropings.
I don't get too many crotch gropings, but I find the whole TSA screening process sickening, not just what they do but the way they do it. Last time I traveled one of them at JFK shouted at me "Get against the glass [divider]!" when I veered a couple feet astray, like a cop shouting demands at a fleeing suspect. If you got treated like that in a restaurant you'd speak to the manager and ask for your money back. Somehow we've been trained to think this is okay.
I don't get too many crotch gropings, but I find the whole TSA screening process sickening, not just what they do but the way they do it. Last time I traveled one of them at JFK shouted at me "Get against the glass [divider]!" when I veered a couple feet astray, like a cop shouting demands at a fleeing suspect. If you got treated like that in a restaurant you'd speak to the manager and ask for your money back. Somehow we've been trained to think this is okay.
file a complaint with the DHS IG: https://hotline.oig.dhs.gov/hotline/hotline.phpName names if you can.
Bad behavior won’t stop if travelers fail to complain, so this must be done every time bad behavior is observed or you are the recipient of such behavior.
Feb 27, 2018, 12:29 pm
#694
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: DFW
Posts: 28,090
Perhaps requesting a TSA "Passenger Support Specialist" for every screening due to the fact that we are subject to "intimate hands on screening" would get someones attention.
Feb 27, 2018, 7:05 pm
#695
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 38,410
What is with all the panic.....
1. Why are people so bothered about scanners?
2. Why all the calls for sexual issues with a pat down
What a bunch of snowflakes
Personally I would rather be safe....Why wouldn't I use a scanner?....No idea....same for everyone
All I can see here is the opportunity to sue someone...that is the US culture afterall
People need to grow a pair!
1. Why are people so bothered about scanners?
2. Why all the calls for sexual issues with a pat down
What a bunch of snowflakes
Personally I would rather be safe....Why wouldn't I use a scanner?....No idea....same for everyone
All I can see here is the opportunity to sue someone...that is the US culture afterall
People need to grow a pair!
The pat-downs are often abusive--retaliation rather than a legitimate security need. That's what we are objecting to.
Feb 28, 2018, 4:56 pm
#696
Moderator: Travel Safety/Security, Travel Tools, California, Los Angeles; FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: LAX
Programs: oneword Emerald
Posts: 20,615
Moderator's Note
Folks,
It is time for the periodic reminder that the Checkpoints and Borders Policy Debate forum's guidelines are strictly enforced in this thread:
Please consider this to be your one and only warning!
Future violators will be subject to discipline (FT Rule 23) without additional notice.
Thank you for your understanding and your future compliance with this forum's posting guidelines and the FlyerTalk Rules.
TWA884
Travel Safety/Security co-moderator
It is time for the periodic reminder that the Checkpoints and Borders Policy Debate forum's guidelines are strictly enforced in this thread:
Please Read: Important Information
Posts have been deleted.Welcome to Travel Safety/Security’s Checkpoints and Borders Policy Debate forum. While this forum permits discussion and civil debate of travel security policy, the FlyerTalk Guidelines & Rules still apply. The moderators will enforce a zero-tolerance policy against personal attacks – against a fellow FTer, TS/S posters in general, or TSA employees as a group. While we don't wish to turn away reflective criticism we do ask that participants refrain from posting behaviors that only serve to inflame or disrupt the forum. Derisive terms used to grossly generalize others such as A. S. S., smurf, goon, thug, Gestapo, Nazi, perv, perp, kettles, gropers, mouth-breathers and the like add no value to the forum and are not permitted.
Moderators may delete posts and move or close threads without notice. This notice may be considered your “warning”.
Moderators may delete posts and move or close threads without notice. This notice may be considered your “warning”.
Please consider this to be your one and only warning!
Future violators will be subject to discipline (FT Rule 23) without additional notice.
Thank you for your understanding and your future compliance with this forum's posting guidelines and the FlyerTalk Rules.
TWA884
Travel Safety/Security co-moderator
Mar 1, 2018, 5:20 pm
#697
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Baltimore, MD USA
Programs: Southwest Rapid Rewards. Tha... that's about it.
Posts: 4,332
Rather than respond with emotion, I will attempt to answer your questions, even though I kinda get the impression that you're asking rhetorically.
I don't know what you mean here, but I agree - TSA's invasive and abusive search methodology is certainly fodder for a lawsuit, and several have already been filed. Unfortunately, the agency's delaying tactics have prevented any of the suits from coming to definitive judgments.
What is with all the panic.....
1. Why are people so bothered about scanners?
The body scanners have a long and complex history. When first introduced, they came in two varieties - Millimeter Wave (MMW), which used non-ionizing microwaves, and Backscatter X-ray (BSX), which used ionizing radiation (x-rays). Initially, the scanners both created detailed images of travelers' bodies without their clothing, viewed by a TSO on a monitor. In other words, TSOs viewed naked pictures of you, and your spouse, and your children. The machines were later altered to include software that scanned automatically, so no more naked pictures - but the software also increased the number of false positives exponentially, and every false positive requires some kind of pat-down, either partial or full-body, to resolve it. The dangerous BSX machines were also retired, but there are some people who hold a fear (unfounded, in my opinion) of the MMW technology in the same way that they believe that cell phones cause brain tumors.
Personally, I have no problem with the MMW scanner now, except for the tremendous number of false positives leading to useless and abusive pat downs.
2. Why all the calls for sexual issues with a pat down
What a bunch of snowflakes
A full body rubdown with genital contact is not a pat down, it's a traumatic personal invasion that often leaves its victims in tears. For a non-cop to perform such an attack, under color of government authority, without any warrant, probable cause, or articulable suspicion, is the worst kind of violation. It is nothing less than a sexual assault, and it hurts people, sometimes severely. Maybe it doesn't hurt you, but please don't make the mistake of thinking that it hurts no one, or that the hurt it causes is imaginary, or the complaints of "snowflakes" (i.e. weak people).
Personally I would rather be safe....Why wouldn't I use a scanner?....No idea....same for everyone
Personally, I don't believe that the scanners make you safe. But see above for why many people don't want to use them.
All I can see here is the opportunity to sue someone...that is the US culture afterall
People need to grow a pair!
1. Why are people so bothered about scanners?
The body scanners have a long and complex history. When first introduced, they came in two varieties - Millimeter Wave (MMW), which used non-ionizing microwaves, and Backscatter X-ray (BSX), which used ionizing radiation (x-rays). Initially, the scanners both created detailed images of travelers' bodies without their clothing, viewed by a TSO on a monitor. In other words, TSOs viewed naked pictures of you, and your spouse, and your children. The machines were later altered to include software that scanned automatically, so no more naked pictures - but the software also increased the number of false positives exponentially, and every false positive requires some kind of pat-down, either partial or full-body, to resolve it. The dangerous BSX machines were also retired, but there are some people who hold a fear (unfounded, in my opinion) of the MMW technology in the same way that they believe that cell phones cause brain tumors.
Personally, I have no problem with the MMW scanner now, except for the tremendous number of false positives leading to useless and abusive pat downs.
2. Why all the calls for sexual issues with a pat down
What a bunch of snowflakes
A full body rubdown with genital contact is not a pat down, it's a traumatic personal invasion that often leaves its victims in tears. For a non-cop to perform such an attack, under color of government authority, without any warrant, probable cause, or articulable suspicion, is the worst kind of violation. It is nothing less than a sexual assault, and it hurts people, sometimes severely. Maybe it doesn't hurt you, but please don't make the mistake of thinking that it hurts no one, or that the hurt it causes is imaginary, or the complaints of "snowflakes" (i.e. weak people).
Personally I would rather be safe....Why wouldn't I use a scanner?....No idea....same for everyone
Personally, I don't believe that the scanners make you safe. But see above for why many people don't want to use them.
All I can see here is the opportunity to sue someone...that is the US culture afterall
People need to grow a pair!
Mar 2, 2018, 6:22 am
#698
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 3,526
Rather than respond with emotion, I will attempt to answer your questions, even though I kinda get the impression that you're asking rhetorically.
I don't know what you mean here, but I agree - TSA's invasive and abusive search methodology is certainly fodder for a lawsuit, and several have already been filed. Unfortunately, the agency's delaying tactics have prevented any of the suits from coming to definitive judgments.
I don't know what you mean here, but I agree - TSA's invasive and abusive search methodology is certainly fodder for a lawsuit, and several have already been filed. Unfortunately, the agency's delaying tactics have prevented any of the suits from coming to definitive judgments.
Edited to add: One law suit that is progressing regarding an aggressive pat down that is making progress may be read here: https://scholar.google.com/scholar_c...36587177848718
Note where TSA claims that genital contact is only "incidental." TSA sure knows how to tell some whoppers.
Jun 1, 2018, 8:33 pm
#699
Join Date: Feb 2017
Posts: 7
Subjected to "Enhanced" Pat down
A few days ago before flying out from Chicago O'hare to LaGuardia I was subjected to the new enhanced pat down (first time flying since!). The guy patting me down was this creepy fat guy in his 50s. The pat down itself lasted literally 5 minutes. He started with my front side top half of the body. Arms, chest, torso all in a circular rubbing motion. All while he's doing this he's looking me in the eye (weirdo lol). When he gets to my waist he runs his fingers underneath the band and moves his hands vertically and horizontally across my genitals (3 times each!). He then runs his hands down my legs and back up again, getting a good feel of my upper thighs. He gets me to sit down on a chair next and lift my feet up, he feels the bottoms of my feet and between each toe, And then runs his hands up the top of my feet to the tops of my socks. Who needs to pay for a personalized massage anymore when you have the TSA. Anyone else have the pleasure of receiving these new "enhanced" pat downs?
Jun 7, 2018, 10:45 am
#700
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 3,526
A few days ago before flying out from Chicago O'hare to LaGuardia I was subjected to the new enhanced pat down (first time flying since!). The guy patting me down was this creepy fat guy in his 50s. The pat down itself lasted literally 5 minutes. He started with my front side top half of the body. Arms, chest, torso all in a circular rubbing motion. All while he's doing this he's looking me in the eye (weirdo lol). When he gets to my waist he runs his fingers underneath the band and moves his hands vertically and horizontally across my genitals (3 times each!). He then runs his hands down my legs and back up again, getting a good feel of my upper thighs. He gets me to sit down on a chair next and lift my feet up, he feels the bottoms of my feet and between each toe, And then runs his hands up the top of my feet to the tops of my socks. Who needs to pay for a personalized massage anymore when you have the TSA. Anyone else have the pleasure of receiving these new "enhanced" pat downs?
If you ever feel sexually assaulted by a screener, get their name & their Supervisory TSO (STSO) involved. The STSO is required per TSA rules to collect and retain ALL evidence and witness names plus contact info. But you must demand it, and ask for a litigation hold before CCTV is erased! Here’s how:https://tinyurl.com/y92ygv62
Jun 9, 2018, 12:04 pm
#701
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: DFW
Posts: 28,090
TSA strikes again. Abusive screening of a 96 year old lady but it's ok because the screener gave advisements and was polite.
TSA agents searching 96-year-old woman in wheelchair
As long as TSA treats travelers like criminals there is no respect or dignity for the flying public.
TSA agents searching 96-year-old woman in wheelchair
"TSA is committed to ensuring the security of travelers, while treating all passengers with dignity and respect. In this instance, the TSA officer provided advisements during the pat-down and was extremely polite. The passenger was very cooperative and gave no indication that she was agitated or in discomfort. She received a pat-down and was cleared for her flight."
"She didn't know what to say. She does not want to fly again ever. She didn't know what they were looking for. She was scared," Clarkson said of her mother. "She was just following directions. She said she didn't know what to do."
Jun 9, 2018, 2:15 pm
#702
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 574
I saw that video a few hours ago.... gotta be the firmest confirmation that ''the terrorists won'' I have seen to date.
Jun 9, 2018, 5:29 pm
#703
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: DFW
Posts: 28,090
I thought TSA had adopted Risk Management and Risk Assessment policies. If so I would suggest that TSA as a group has a very poor grasp of what those concepts really mean.
There is absolutely no reason to treat the elderly and disabled in such manner. Actually I see no reason that anyone should be treated as depicted in the video.
We can do better than the TSA that we have and as citizens should join forces and demand change, to not be treated like criminals for just wanting to freely travel, to be treated with dignity and respect, and to be acknowledged by TSA that the public should have a voice in screening protocols.
There is absolutely no reason to treat the elderly and disabled in such manner. Actually I see no reason that anyone should be treated as depicted in the video.
We can do better than the TSA that we have and as citizens should join forces and demand change, to not be treated like criminals for just wanting to freely travel, to be treated with dignity and respect, and to be acknowledged by TSA that the public should have a voice in screening protocols.
Jun 9, 2018, 7:38 pm
#704
Suspended
Original Poster
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Watchlisted by the prejudiced, en route to purgatory
Programs: Just Say No to Fleecing and Blacklisting
Posts: 102,095
Never seen such a thing at airport screening checkpoints beyond the US. Do even the Canadian and British equivalents to the TSA do this TSA groping to passengers at the general airport screening checkpoints? .
Jun 10, 2018, 6:29 am
#705
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 3,526
Sexual Assault by TSA or anyone else is no joking matter. What I fail to understand is how these TSA screeners can go home everyday and face their family, husbands, wives, and especially their children after doing these crotch gropings.
I don't think a person of good conscience would do such things.
I don't think a person of good conscience would do such things.