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TSA wants to get more intimate when doing passenger pat downs.

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Old Mar 4, 17, 3:33 am
  #16
 
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Actually it was not my experience. Someone posted about their recent experience at BOS at ycombinator and it is the only account I have heard so far about the new 'universal' procedure, the newest pushback from the Total Sexual Assault agency perverts basically making airline travel in the US completely intolerable for so many.

Maybe it's really just a form of petty revenge at the insulting report about their 95% failure rate at detecting weapons and explosives, but it could also be a strategy to get something they want. Maybe they figure that this two handed, double-grope will give them bargaining power to get whatever they want by agreeing to go back to the old genital karate chop method if their request is granted.

My experience was with a US bound gate-rape out of CDG (Paris) with an overly enthusiastic Frenchman who must have misread the TSA training manual and who believed he had to actually do a completely thorough genital finger search of the entire area. It was really disgusting and humiliating and makes the Genital Chop seem innocent in comparison. Or maybe he was just a horny perv like those guys in Denver. Anyway unrelated to this new Universal Grope.

Could you post some more detail about what happened to you? So far there is only one account. Another would help I think.
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Old Mar 4, 17, 3:41 am
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What happens if one wears a support cup (the type that one wears playing a sport)? Can the agents make you take that off to get to one's genitals if that is one's only underwear?
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Old Mar 4, 17, 6:21 am
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Originally Posted by txflyer77 View Post
Any of the resident lawyers care to chime in on how far the TSA can push these searches without the courts taking a closer look?

It's only a matter of time before this ends in a lawsuit. Or a TSO gets his teeth kicked in by a sexual assault victim whose PTSD comes raging back while being groped at a checkpoint.
You will recall that Pistole said the TSA had the authority to do cavity searches if they chose to use that authority.

Transportation Security Administration chief John Pistole is careful not to rule out the use of additional security measures at US airports except to say that body cavity searches were not on the table.
http://www.csmonitor.com/USA/Politic...avity-searches

Originally Posted by gojirasan View Post
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13788721



This is just horrifying. I am not sure but I think they can 'randomly' subject you to this even if you don't alarm the scanner. I tend to be one of those people subjected to 'random' searches by the TSA more often than most people...



Luckily I have never had a problem with the MMW scanners alarming and the milllimeter wave tech and cartoonish displays don't bother me. So I don't opt out. I'm more concerned being randomly selected for a search. Actually I tend to travel with lots of computer parts in my carry-ons and I have been selected for body searches for that reason. So I am probably a lot more likely to have problems with this than many of you.

I don't think I've posted about my experience here yet but I was the victim of TSA-inspired (for a flight to the US) sexual molestation and it really did cause me lasting mental trauma. It was just awful. More awful than I even imagined it would be before it happened to me. I would really encourage anyone who might willingly subject themselves to this new 'more intimate' molestation to choose a no fly option instead.
You bet they can "randomly" select you for this type of invasion. The article I read indicated that they will be selecting airport employees to be searched like this.

From what I have read on Twitter and from Angela Rye's experience, it would seem that the scanners are very prone to giving false alarms on the groin area and I am beginning to wonder if this might be by design. It happens to both straight and trans travelers.

TSA doesn't have a clue as to how many people have been traumatized by these sexual assaults - and that's exactly what they are. There are thousands of accounts of people, mostly women but many men aso, leaving checkpoints in tears, shaking, nauseous and now traumatized for life as a result of being sexually assaulted by TSA.

Originally Posted by eigenvector View Post
@gojirasan, what you describe is exactly what I experienced 3 weeks ago at IAH. The TSA officer was obviously quite uncomfortable with the procedure and said he had to call over a supervisor to witness it in case of complaints. Disgusting.
I am trying to envision how a screener can lock hands together and explore the genital area. Was it with the palms of the hands or the back of the hand?

Last edited by TWA884; Mar 4, 17 at 9:36 am Reason: Merge consecutive posts
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Old Mar 4, 17, 7:15 am
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Originally Posted by txflyer77 View Post
Any of the resident lawyers care to chime in on how far the TSA can push these searches without the courts taking a closer look?

It's only a matter of time before this ends in a lawsuit. Or a TSO gets his teeth kicked in by a sexual assault victim whose PTSD comes raging back while being groped at a checkpoint.
As a non-lawyer, I would only observe that it will wind up in court only if we bring it there.

I really don't expect anyone to reign in the TSA. ExtortionCheck has worked like a charm so those most likely to get in their faces will never experience this.

Originally Posted by petaluma1 View Post
I am trying to envision how a screener can lock hands together and explore the genital area. Was it with the palms of the hands or the back of the hand?
All of us who fly frequently and who don't have ExtortionCheck need to be ready to film one of these assaults and post it on YouTube. My iPhone is cranking and at the ready.

... I remember posting that We, the People, would pay dearly for the TSA's failures. The subtitle in the Bloomberg article states:

The TSA reacts to a study that found weapons making it past security.

Last edited by TWA884; Mar 4, 17 at 9:37 am Reason: Merge consecutive posts
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Old Mar 4, 17, 8:44 am
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Another article on this:
http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/n...owns/98713844/

I love this quote:
Originally Posted by Nico Melendez, a public affairs manager for TSA
...lessens the cognitive burden for our officers.
I think we have a new classic. Lessen the cognitive burden of a TSO - someone whose cognition is (ostensibly) directly tasked with the safety and security of the traveling public.

In other words, we don't want TSOs to have to think too hard on the job, so we're just going to escalate every search up to 100% by default so they never have to strain their <deleted> brains while charged with maintaining the safety and security of the traveling public.

Of course, it's completely consistent with TSA's historical attitude of, "Well, airport screenings have been found legal by the court - therefore we are allowed to to anything we want, to anyone we want, at any time we want, in any place we want, using any method or tool we want. We're completely unlimited! (give us more money, we're doing so much we need more people).

Last edited by TWA884; Mar 4, 17 at 9:39 am Reason: Pejorative; please refer to forum's sticky post
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Old Mar 4, 17, 8:51 am
  #21
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Originally Posted by FliesWay2Much View Post
As a non-lawyer, I would only observe that it will wind up in court only if we bring it there.

I really don't expect anyone to reign in the TSA. ExtortionCheck has worked like a charm so those most likely to get in their faces will never experience this.
That is why I said up thread that if you think you have been assaulted, sexually or otherwise, by a TSA employee then summon a police officer and file a complaint. That is the only way this will get the attention needed. And it is not the LEO's job to adjudicate the issue should you get one that doesn't want to take your complaint.

Just because TSA says their SOP's allows for this kind of search doesn't make it right or legal. Our only protection will be found in the courts.
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Old Mar 4, 17, 9:29 am
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Originally Posted by Boggie Dog View Post
That is why I said up thread that if you think you have been assaulted, sexually or otherwise, by a TSA employee then summon a police officer and file a complaint. That is the only way this will get the attention needed. And it is not the LEO's job to adjudicate the issue should you get one that doesn't want to take your complaint.

Just because TSA says their SOP's allows for this kind of search doesn't make it right or legal. Our only protection will be found in the courts.
Since we know now that all passengers are going to be fully sexually assaulted with every "pat down", that police officer needs to be summoned BEFORE the assault begins.
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Old Mar 4, 17, 10:28 am
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Originally Posted by petaluma1 View Post
Since we know now that all passengers are going to be fully sexually assaulted with every "pat down", that police officer needs to be summoned BEFORE the assault begins.
Sadly a complaint can't be lodged until after the act.
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Old Mar 4, 17, 10:46 am
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Originally Posted by Boggie Dog View Post
Sadly a complaint can't be lodged until after the act.
I am aware of that but an police officer should be witnessing the assault. Angela Rye had a police officer film her assault and he then offered to file an incident report. I don't know for certain if he did so.
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Old Mar 4, 17, 6:45 pm
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Originally Posted by gojirasan View Post
Could you post some more detail about what happened to you? So far there is only one account. Another would help I think.
The agent informed me that the bodyscanner had been triggered because something was in my shirt pocket (it was my credit card) so they would have to do a physical search. He then said there is a new process and not all TSOs are trained on it so I would have to wait while he got a supervisor to ensure it was being done properly.

The process was that he locked his hands together and rubbed them across my thigh and groin going first horizontally and then vertically so a total of 6 or 8 times to go all the way across. Not sure what this really achieved other than embarrassment for all parties as the bodyscanner had not been triggered in that area of my body.
Originally Posted by petaluma1 View Post
I am trying to envision how a screener can lock hands together and explore the genital area. Was it with the palms of the hands or the back of the hand?
Back of the hand.
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Old Mar 4, 17, 7:46 pm
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I got a long slow loving patdown when I opted out in IAD. Including hands across the penile area etc.

I was not thrilled but at least I was expecting it.

They didn't grab my testicles but almost...I think this is purposeful intimidation to get more people to go through their possibly harmful scanners.

I suppose it was back of hand, it happened several times, and the entire body patdown was much slower and more invasive. Obviously they have been given instructions.
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Old Mar 4, 17, 11:36 pm
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Perhaps I'm unduly optimistic, but this doesn't seem like it will last.

The current body scanner plan is fairly stupid: go through the scanner, a piece of lint shows up in your breast pocket, then someone presses on the pocket to ensure that it's lint, not a machine gun.

The new procedure is laughably sinister: go through the scanner, lint shows you up in your pocket, so your entire body must swept up and down, swabbed, and frisked and re-frisked, even though the scanner pointed out the area of the "anomaly."

It's so time and labour intensive that they can't pull it off.

The quote about "cognitive strain" was unfortunate. TSA staff are begging and begging for respect. Now their own agency has made it clear that they do not believe that their staff have the intellectual capacity for the job. That comment could easily exacerbate tension at the checkpoint.

There are significant problems with public humiliation, but I also think such lengthy and intrusive searches point to the elephant in the room: "What are they looking for?" The answer is: "We'll know when we find it."
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Old Mar 4, 17, 11:45 pm
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Originally Posted by Mats View Post
Perhaps I'm unduly optimistic, but this doesn't seem like it will last.

The current body scanner plan is fairly stupid: go through the scanner, a piece of lint shows up in your breast pocket, then someone presses on the pocket to ensure that it's lint, not a machine gun.

The new procedure is laughably sinister: go through the scanner, lint shows you up in your pocket, so your entire body must swept up and down, swabbed, and frisked and re-frisked, even though the scanner pointed out the area of the "anomaly."

It's so time and labour intensive that they can't pull it off.

The quote about "cognitive strain" was unfortunate. TSA staff are begging and begging for respect. Now their own agency has made it clear that they do not believe that their staff have the intellectual capacity for the job. That comment could easily exacerbate tension at the checkpoint.

There are significant problems with public humiliation, but I also think such lengthy and intrusive searches point to the elephant in the room: "What are they looking for?" The answer is: "We'll know when we find it."
I think one part of this is to address people like myself, who normally opt out of the body scanner whenever possible and ask for the pat-down, which TSA views as an inefficiency. So they intend to make the pat-down so onerous that we will no longer object to it.
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Old Mar 5, 17, 1:33 am
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Originally Posted by eigenvector View Post
I think one part of this is to address people like myself, who normally opt out of the body scanner whenever possible and ask for the pat-down, which TSA views as an inefficiency. So they intend to make the pat-down so onerous that we will no longer object to it.
exactly.
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Old Mar 5, 17, 2:14 am
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Originally Posted by petaluma1 View Post
What I want to know is how many what TSA calls "dangerous items" have EVER been found while assaulting passengers.
Could it be argued that TSA is the deterrent so nobody would dare attempt to smuggle a "dangerous item" through security? This is proof screening works.

Originally Posted by Boggie Dog View Post
If overt genital contact is made by a TSA screener then summon police and make a complaint.
What if your genitals make overt contact with a TSA screener's hand? Will the screener have recourse?
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