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Originally Posted by Boggie Dog
(Post 28241833)
They should both be the same but as put forth by Section 107 it seems there may be a difference in what the regulations state and what TSA actually does.
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As occasioned by the TSA's search of a tenant space, the main question in this thread is "may TSA conduct suspicionless and warrantless searches and inspections of persons and places in the sterile and secure areas?"
I have been very consistent and specific (even as I have had to make some corrections/clarifications) in what I have been saying: yes, the TSA may conduct such searches and inspections, because it has been given broad authority by law, regulation and 40 years of jurisprudence, to conduct searches and inspections of anyone anywhere in the sterile and secure areas as long as the searches and inspections comport with the 4th Amendment and its exceptions that have been carved out for what are known as administrative searches. NDSol and Ptravel have been adamant in making blanket statements that absolutely no warrantless or suspicionless searches or inspections are permitted anywhere in the sterile and secure areas except at a PSC but also at a boarding gate for those persons having the intention of boarding a plane. I have been consistently saying that airport operators and TSA not only believe that TSA may, but that TSA regularly does make suspicionless and warrantless searches and inspections in the sterile and secure areas and, absent TSA employees making significant mistakes (such as allowing employees discretion in selecting whom to search), any search or inspection TSA makes of any person or place in the sterile and secure areas that is challenged in a court will be defended by the government as a permissible administrative search and that the courts will bend over backwards to uphold the search as being a permissible administrative search. I have never said the TSA has unlimited authority to search or that the airport environment is a constitution-free zone nor that the 4th does not apply at airports (although 50 plus years of case history shows that fear benefits the government at the expense of individual rights). [sorry for the run-on sentences...] |
Originally Posted by Section 107
(Post 28251918)
As occasioned by the TSA's search of a tenant space, the main question in this thread is "may TSA conduct suspicionless and warrantless searches and inspections of persons and places in the sterile and secure areas?"
I have been very consistent and specific (even as I have had to make some corrections/clarifications) in what I have been saying: yes, the TSA may conduct such searches and inspections, because it has been given broad authority by law, regulation and 40 years of jurisprudence, to conduct searches and inspections of anyone anywhere in the sterile and secure areas as long as the searches and inspections comport with the 4th Amendment and its exceptions that have been carved out for what are known as administrative searches. NDSol and Ptravel have been adamant in making blanket statements that absolutely no warrantless or suspicionless searches or inspections are permitted anywhere in the sterile and secure areas except at a PSC but also at a boarding gate for those persons having the intention of boarding a plane. I have been consistently saying that airport operators and TSA not only believe that TSA may, but that TSA regularly does make suspicionless and warrantless searches and inspections in the sterile and secure areas and, absent TSA employees making significant mistakes (such as allowing employees discretion in selecting whom to search), any search or inspection TSA makes of any person or place in the sterile and secure areas that is challenged in a court will be defended by the government as a permissible administrative search and that the courts will bend over backwards to uphold the search as being a permissible administrative search. I have never said the TSA has unlimited authority to search or that the airport environment is a constitution-free zone nor that the 4th does not apply at airports (although 50 plus years of case history shows that fear benefits the government at the expense of individual rights). [sorry for the run-on sentences...] |
Originally Posted by Boggie Dog
(Post 28252273)
I think the others have limited their remarks to passenger searches, not airport workers.
I have pointed out that TSA by policy and practice does not search "passengers" in those areas except in relatively "rare" circumstances. That TSA does not do so except in those rare circumstances does not mean that it may not do so in a more regular way. |
Originally Posted by Section 107
(Post 28257359)
Well, yes, yes they have. But as I have tried to point out, the law and regulations do not make any distinctions between "passengers" and any other classification or category of persons in the sterile/secure areas.
I have pointed out that TSA by policy and practice does not search "passengers" in those areas except in relatively "rare" circumstances. That TSA does not do so except in those rare circumstances does not mean that it may not do so in a more regular way. |
Originally Posted by Section 107
(Post 28257359)
Well, yes, yes they have. But as I have tried to point out, the law and regulations do not make any distinctions between "passengers" and any other classification or category of persons in the sterile/secure areas.
I have pointed out that TSA by policy and practice does not search "passengers" in those areas except in relatively "rare" circumstances. That TSA does not do so except in those rare circumstances does not mean that it may not do so in a more regular way. But those holding a SIDA badge also agree to random screenings as a condition for holding the badge. Hence, TSA has authority to conduct random screenings on SIDA badge holders inside the sterile area, because they explicitly consent to such screenings when applying for a SIDA badge. Passengers don't. |
Originally Posted by Section 107
(Post 28257359)
I have pointed out that TSA by policy and practice does not search "passengers" in those areas except in relatively "rare" circumstances. That TSA does not do so except in those rare circumstances does not mean that it may not do so in a more regular way.
<redacted by moderator>. I am happy to discuss this with whomever you are getting your information from. Feel free to PM me with their info. I have done that before on this site < moderator's edit: Flyer “Processed” (Arrested?) in NM After Declining to Show ID > and talking about the matter with Legal. Unsurprisingly, Legal didn't see it the way he did.
Originally Posted by WillCAD
(Post 28257671)
That's right, the law makes no distinction between passengers and badged personnel. They both have the same Constitutional protection from unreasonable search and seizure inside the sterile area.
But those holding a SIDA badge also agree to random screenings as a condition for holding the badge. Hence, TSA has authority to conduct random screenings on SIDA badge holders inside the sterile area, because they explicitly consent to such screenings when applying for a SIDA badge. Passengers don't. |
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