Why do Passports List Place/Country of Birth?
Jan 29, 2017, 11:27 am
#1
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Why do Passports List Place/Country of Birth?
I'm asking this on light of the new Trump rules...why do most countries list place of birth on passports?
It seems to serve no purpose other than making things difficult for the passport holder. For example, an Israel born US citizen not being allowed to leave Israel without a draft clearance. And now, an Iraq born UK citizen not being allowed into the US.
Apparently, there is no international requirement that place of birth be on passports. e.g., there is no place of birth on Swiss passports.
So, why is this information included?
It seems to serve no purpose other than making things difficult for the passport holder. For example, an Israel born US citizen not being allowed to leave Israel without a draft clearance. And now, an Iraq born UK citizen not being allowed into the US.
Apparently, there is no international requirement that place of birth be on passports. e.g., there is no place of birth on Swiss passports.
So, why is this information included?
Jan 29, 2017, 11:34 am
#2
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Partially answering my own question, from the U.S. State Department Foreign Affairs Manual (https://fam.state.gov/FAM/07FAM/07FAM1300apD.html):
g. Requests for No Place of Birth Listing in Passports: An applicant requesting that no place of birth be listed on a passport should be advised that the United States will not issue a U.S. passport with no place of birth listing. The “place of birth” designation is an integral part of establishing an individual’s identity. It distinguishes that individual from other persons with similar names and/or dates of birth, and helps identify claimants attempting to use another person’s identity. The information also facilitates retrieval of passport records to assist the Department in determining citizenship or notifying next of kin or other person designated by the individual to be notified in case of an emergency. Inquirers may further be advised that:
(1) A passport, as defined by Section 101(a)(30) of the Immigration and Nationality Act of 1952, is "any travel document issued by competent authority showing the bearer's origin, identity, and nationality if any, which is valid for the entry of the bearer into a foreign country";
(2) For United States passport purposes, the Department of State has defined the term "bearer's origin" to be the bearer's place of birth as it is presently recognized. That entry is included to assist in identifying the individual, not the individual’s nationality. The passport very clearly states that the bearer is a United States national or citizen;
(3) Inclusion of the place of birth entry in the passport is consistent with the 1980 report of the International Civil Aviation Organization of the United Nations, (ICAO), which recommended a standardized passport including the place of birth entry as an essential element; and
(4) Over the last few years, deletion of the place of birth entry from the U.S. passport has been discussed extensively among U.S. Government agencies and with the Congress:
(a) In 1986, Congress directed the Comptroller General to complete a study on the issue;
(b) The August 1987 General Accounting Office (GAO) report (GAO 87-201) on this issue discusses two separate studies conducted by the Department of State, one in 1977 and another in 1986, to determine how the removal of the place of birth would affect travel by American citizens;
(c) Those studies concluded that elimination of the place of birth from the U.S. passport would cause considerable inconvenience to the entire traveling population, since a number of countries would still require place of birth information. Travelers would have to provide place of birth documentation, either when applying for a visa or when entering the country, or run the risk of being denied entry to those countries;
(d) The report also confirmed that U.S. law enforcement agencies could not agree to its removal from the U.S. passport because it is a vital data element used in anti-terrorist, anti-drug, and anti-fraud programs; and
(e) The GAO report reinforced previous conclusions that removal of the place of birth would lead to serious problems for the U.S. Government and for the majority of the American traveling public; and
(5) To assist foreign-born passport applicants who may object to the country name indicating the place of birth, passport procedures permit the placing of the name of the city or town of birth in the passport in lieu of the country of birth. However, in such cases, applicants are cautioned that the use of this option also may cause delay or other difficulties when traveling to, or obtaining visas for entry into, certain foreign countries.
g. Requests for No Place of Birth Listing in Passports: An applicant requesting that no place of birth be listed on a passport should be advised that the United States will not issue a U.S. passport with no place of birth listing. The “place of birth” designation is an integral part of establishing an individual’s identity. It distinguishes that individual from other persons with similar names and/or dates of birth, and helps identify claimants attempting to use another person’s identity. The information also facilitates retrieval of passport records to assist the Department in determining citizenship or notifying next of kin or other person designated by the individual to be notified in case of an emergency. Inquirers may further be advised that:
(1) A passport, as defined by Section 101(a)(30) of the Immigration and Nationality Act of 1952, is "any travel document issued by competent authority showing the bearer's origin, identity, and nationality if any, which is valid for the entry of the bearer into a foreign country";
(2) For United States passport purposes, the Department of State has defined the term "bearer's origin" to be the bearer's place of birth as it is presently recognized. That entry is included to assist in identifying the individual, not the individual’s nationality. The passport very clearly states that the bearer is a United States national or citizen;
(3) Inclusion of the place of birth entry in the passport is consistent with the 1980 report of the International Civil Aviation Organization of the United Nations, (ICAO), which recommended a standardized passport including the place of birth entry as an essential element; and
(4) Over the last few years, deletion of the place of birth entry from the U.S. passport has been discussed extensively among U.S. Government agencies and with the Congress:
(a) In 1986, Congress directed the Comptroller General to complete a study on the issue;
(b) The August 1987 General Accounting Office (GAO) report (GAO 87-201) on this issue discusses two separate studies conducted by the Department of State, one in 1977 and another in 1986, to determine how the removal of the place of birth would affect travel by American citizens;
(c) Those studies concluded that elimination of the place of birth from the U.S. passport would cause considerable inconvenience to the entire traveling population, since a number of countries would still require place of birth information. Travelers would have to provide place of birth documentation, either when applying for a visa or when entering the country, or run the risk of being denied entry to those countries;
(d) The report also confirmed that U.S. law enforcement agencies could not agree to its removal from the U.S. passport because it is a vital data element used in anti-terrorist, anti-drug, and anti-fraud programs; and
(e) The GAO report reinforced previous conclusions that removal of the place of birth would lead to serious problems for the U.S. Government and for the majority of the American traveling public; and
(5) To assist foreign-born passport applicants who may object to the country name indicating the place of birth, passport procedures permit the placing of the name of the city or town of birth in the passport in lieu of the country of birth. However, in such cases, applicants are cautioned that the use of this option also may cause delay or other difficulties when traveling to, or obtaining visas for entry into, certain foreign countries.
I'm asking this on light of the new Trump rules...why do most countries list place of birth on passports?
It seems to serve no purpose other than making things difficult for the passport holder. For example, an Israel born US citizen not being allowed to leave Israel without a draft clearance. And now, an Iraq born UK citizen not being allowed into the US.
Apparently, there is no international requirement that place of birth be on passports. e.g., there is no place of birth on Swiss passports.
So, why is this information included?
It seems to serve no purpose other than making things difficult for the passport holder. For example, an Israel born US citizen not being allowed to leave Israel without a draft clearance. And now, an Iraq born UK citizen not being allowed into the US.
Apparently, there is no international requirement that place of birth be on passports. e.g., there is no place of birth on Swiss passports.
So, why is this information included?
Jan 29, 2017, 6:03 pm
#3
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(c) Those studies concluded that elimination of the place of birth from the U.S. passport would cause considerable inconvenience to the entire traveling population, since a number of countries would still require place of birth information. Travelers would have to provide place of birth documentation, either when applying for a visa or when entering the country, or run the risk of being denied entry to those countries;
Japanese and Swiss citizens (where place of birth is not listed on the passport) don't seem to have any issues applying for visas of countries that need them.
Also, most countries do not grant citizenship to a person solely for being born there. Instead, citizenship is by blood. So the "place of birth" is irrelevant in most cases.
Jan 30, 2017, 1:01 am
#4
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Indeed my Swiss passport does not list my "place of birth", but my "place of origin". It occasionally causes raised eyebrows at some points of entry as the the paperwork I have filled in (for example, my ESTA) lists my place of birth, which happens to be in a different country from my place of origin (for the record I'm a dual British/Swiss national, born in the UK).
Jan 30, 2017, 2:17 am
#5
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[COLOR="Navy"]g. Requests for No Place of Birth Listing in Passports: An applicant requesting that no place of birth be listed on a passport should be advised that the United States will not issue a U.S. passport with no place of birth listing. The “place of birth” designation is an integral part of establishing an individual’s identity. It distinguishes that individual from other persons with similar names and/or dates of birth, and helps identify claimants attempting to use another person’s identity. The information also facilitates retrieval of passport records to assist the Department in determining citizenship or notifying next of kin or other person designated by the individual to be notified in case of an emergency.
Jan 30, 2017, 2:33 am
#6
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I wouldn't be surprised if more countries follow the lead of Switzerland and delete place of birth. It is increasingly being used to discriminate against naturalized citizens. For example, China is now causing problems for Canadian citizens who were born in what is now China (but was not at the time of their birth), refusing to issue them Chinese visas in their Canadian passport.
The benefits to the issuing country in terms of identifying the bearer are small in comparison with the opportunity for foreign states to discriminate against a country's naturalized citizens.
The benefits to the issuing country in terms of identifying the bearer are small in comparison with the opportunity for foreign states to discriminate against a country's naturalized citizens.
Dec 16, 2017, 9:55 am
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Dec 16, 2017, 10:08 am
#8
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But there may also be some benefits for the passport holder in having such a data field on an accepted identity document. The more identification data that is captured about an individual, the more unique the individual may be perceived and the more easily the person can be tracked as an individual. That's for better and for worse for the passport holders.
Dec 16, 2017, 10:36 am
#9
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Indeed my Swiss passport does not list my "place of birth", but my "place of origin". It occasionally causes raised eyebrows at some points of entry as the the paperwork I have filled in (for example, my ESTA) lists my place of birth, which happens to be in a different country from my place of origin (for the record I'm a dual British/Swiss national, born in the UK).
Thus, a person born in what may have been the German Democratic Republic (GDR or East Germany) as it was called at the time of the person's birth, would today have a passport listing a place of birth of Germany because that is how that location on a map is recognized by the US today.
Dec 16, 2017, 11:05 am
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If you take a look at the extensive quote in #2 , you will see that the term "place of origin" is US term as well. However, the US Department of State has chosen to define "place of origin" as "place of birth as it is presently recognized [by the USA]."
Thus, a person born in what may have been the German Democratic Republic (GDR or East Germany) as it was called at the time of the person's birth, would today have a passport listing a place of birth of Germany because that is how that location on a map is recognized by the US today.
Thus, a person born in what may have been the German Democratic Republic (GDR or East Germany) as it was called at the time of the person's birth, would today have a passport listing a place of birth of Germany because that is how that location on a map is recognized by the US today.
Last edited by GUWonder; Dec 16, 2017 at 11:11 am
Jan 10, 2018, 2:54 pm
#12
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https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Zealand_passport
Passports issued after December 2005 will only include the city of birth
New Zealand passport is not the only one using city/town as place of birth. Spanish ones do the same but even more complicated, listing "Town (Province)", so you will get things like "Zahara de los Atunes (Cádiz)"
Jan 10, 2018, 3:18 pm
#13
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I think most countries list a city, as country is too general. German passports definitely do, and even my German residence permit shows my city of birth, that I wrote down on the application. They never asked for my birth certificate, and my US passport shows country of birth, so they took my word for it, it seems.
Jan 11, 2018, 1:48 pm
#14
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Moderator's Note: Topic Drift
Folks,
The topic of this thread is the reason(s) for listing places of birth in passports. This has little if anything to do with dual or multiple citizenships. If you wish to discuss the latter subject, please start a new thread.
Future off topic messages will be deleted without further notice.
Thank you for understanding,
TWA884
Travel Safety/Security co-moderator
The topic of this thread is the reason(s) for listing places of birth in passports. This has little if anything to do with dual or multiple citizenships. If you wish to discuss the latter subject, please start a new thread.
Future off topic messages will be deleted without further notice.
Thank you for understanding,
TWA884
Travel Safety/Security co-moderator
Jan 12, 2018, 6:25 am
#15
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I think most countries list a city, as country is too general. German passports definitely do, and even my German residence permit shows my city of birth, that I wrote down on the application. They never asked for my birth certificate, and my US passport shows country of birth, so they took my word for it, it seems.
My favorite has to be the UK citizen I overheard arguing with a US immigration inspector about where his American passport was, because his place of birth was "Washington", which in addition to being a U.S. state and several U.S. cities, is also a city near Newcastle-upon-Tyne (as opposed to Newcastle, NSW or New Castle, Delaware).
I think the Canadians have a good compromise with "Ottawa CAN" or "Brussels BEL", though you're still not sure with "Springfield USA"
