How will TSA respond to FLL baggage claim shooting?
#32
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: DFW
Posts: 28,010
I don't know if a security system could be devised that would mitigate each and every threat vector, especially without stripping the rights from everyone else.
Move the checkpoint back and that becomes the new attack point and so forth. Where does it end?
About two million people fly each day in the U.S. and this nut bag is only a blip on the whole scheme of things. Not saying that this attack wasn't horrible because it was but you don't go overboard to fix a problem that is unlikely to happen again. If we use that kind of logic then shouldn't demand that all airplanes be grounded since we know that there will be crashes in future years?
#33
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: CLT
Programs: AA EXP; Avis PC; Hertz PC; Marriott LT Gold; Hilton Diamond
Posts: 1,122
If this attack took place at Walmart, would there be a call to have security screenings at Walmart? Why is baggage claim at an airport a more sensitive area that requires security?
It's like a hotel or train station lobby. The same risks exist in any public space.
The fact that this public space was connected to an airport should somehow entitle it to be more secure?
It's like a hotel or train station lobby. The same risks exist in any public space.
The fact that this public space was connected to an airport should somehow entitle it to be more secure?
#34
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 3,526
Don't know the exact date but has been the way it is now for many years.
I don't know if a security system could be devised that would mitigate each and every threat vector, especially without stripping the rights from everyone else.
Move the checkpoint back and that becomes the new attack point and so forth. Where does it end?
About two million people fly each day in the U.S. and this nut bag is only a blip on the whole scheme of things. Not saying that this attack wasn't horrible because it was but you don't go overboard to fix a problem that is unlikely to happen again. If we use that kind of logic then shouldn't demand that all airplanes be grounded since we know that there will be crashes in future years?
I don't know if a security system could be devised that would mitigate each and every threat vector, especially without stripping the rights from everyone else.
Move the checkpoint back and that becomes the new attack point and so forth. Where does it end?
About two million people fly each day in the U.S. and this nut bag is only a blip on the whole scheme of things. Not saying that this attack wasn't horrible because it was but you don't go overboard to fix a problem that is unlikely to happen again. If we use that kind of logic then shouldn't demand that all airplanes be grounded since we know that there will be crashes in future years?
If this attack took place at Walmart, would there be a call to have security screenings at Walmart? Why is baggage claim at an airport a more sensitive area that requires security?
It's like a hotel or train station lobby. The same risks exist in any public space.
The fact that this public space was connected to an airport should somehow entitle it to be more secure?
It's like a hotel or train station lobby. The same risks exist in any public space.
The fact that this public space was connected to an airport should somehow entitle it to be more secure?
#35
Join Date: May 2004
Programs: BA blue, LH Senator, KQ (FB) gold
Posts: 8,215
Maybe TSA will require all luggage containing firearms to be checked to the destination baggage office, where unclaimed and oversized bags are currently sent, so that some verification (not just ID, but e.g. whether the passenger is sober) can be performed before pickup.
#36
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 3,526
This actually isn't a bad suggestion. If there was a way to easily require that no one be allowed to pick up a gun without a verification that they were, at that moment, sober and sane, I would support it. Of course, there isn't, but in this particular situation, there is, so why not apply it?
#37
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: DFW
Posts: 28,010
This actually isn't a bad suggestion. If there was a way to easily require that no one be allowed to pick up a gun without a verification that they were, at that moment, sober and sane, I would support it. Of course, there isn't, but in this particular situation, there is, so why not apply it?
Most airports I've been in has baggage offices co-located at baggage claim areas anyhow.
#38
Join Date: May 2004
Programs: BA blue, LH Senator, KQ (FB) gold
Posts: 8,215
Obviously you cannot prove it. However, it is relatively easy to ascertain the reverse. As you have indicated, sobriety is easy. I'm not asking for perfection. However, I am sure that you have encountered people who you are able to ascertain are not of sound mind in 15-30 seconds. Don't let the perfect be the enemy of the good.
#39
A FlyerTalk Posting Legend
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: where the chile is hot
Programs: AA,RR,NW,Delta ,UA,CO
Posts: 41,236
If this attack took place at Walmart, would there be a call to have security screenings at Walmart? Why is baggage claim at an airport a more sensitive area that requires security?
It's like a hotel or train station lobby. The same risks exist in any public space.
The fact that this public space was connected to an airport should somehow entitle it to be more secure?
It's like a hotel or train station lobby. The same risks exist in any public space.
The fact that this public space was connected to an airport should somehow entitle it to be more secure?
We simply can not reasonably protect against all possibilities.
Frankly, I consider the risk of a firearm incident to be MUCH higher at shopping malls than airport baggage claim areas.
#40
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Atlanta, GA
Programs: DL DM & 5MM, WN
Posts: 1,451
The extra step of going into the baggage office seems like it would be easy enough. It would reduce the chance of having the wrong person take the bag with the gun, allows an ID check and also would put "a last set of eyes" on the passenger. You could also impose a 30 minute or 60 minute waiting period to pick the gun up. You could require a skycap to take the bag and load it into a vehicle. A fee could be charged to pay for the extra steps. The wait alone might uncover someone that is unstable or deter someone with criminal intent. Loopholes would remain for sure.
Still no solution for this person doing the exact same thing, but in Alaska and never even flyng: walk into baggage claim at ANC with a gun in a duffel bag, go to the restroom and load it, and then walk out and start shooting.
I do notice a lot of lightly used and totally unsecure restrooms scattered around baggage claim areas. Maybe that can be looked at.
Has it been announced how and when this person obtained the handgun? And was his mental health status in the databases used to screen purchases?
Still no solution for this person doing the exact same thing, but in Alaska and never even flyng: walk into baggage claim at ANC with a gun in a duffel bag, go to the restroom and load it, and then walk out and start shooting.
I do notice a lot of lightly used and totally unsecure restrooms scattered around baggage claim areas. Maybe that can be looked at.
Has it been announced how and when this person obtained the handgun? And was his mental health status in the databases used to screen purchases?
#41
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: BOS
Posts: 63
I don't recall reading if he was still active military, but if he is and had a military ID or DoD CAC, the answer is probably 'yes.'
#42
A FlyerTalk Posting Legend
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: where the chile is hot
Programs: AA,RR,NW,Delta ,UA,CO
Posts: 41,236
The extra step of going into the baggage office seems like it would be easy enough. It would reduce the chance of having the wrong person take the bag with the gun, allows an ID check and also would put "a last set of eyes" on the passenger. You could also impose a 30 minute or 60 minute waiting period to pick the gun up. You could require a skycap to take the bag and load it into a vehicle. A fee could be charged to pay for the extra steps. The wait alone might uncover someone that is unstable or deter someone with criminal intent. Loopholes would remain for sure.
Still no solution for this person doing the exact same thing, but in Alaska and never even flyng: walk into baggage claim at ANC with a gun in a duffel bag, go to the restroom and load it, and then walk out and start shooting.
I do notice a lot of lightly used and totally unsecure restrooms scattered around baggage claim areas. Maybe that can be looked at.
Has it been announced how and when this person obtained the handgun? And was his mental health status in the databases used to screen purchases?
Still no solution for this person doing the exact same thing, but in Alaska and never even flyng: walk into baggage claim at ANC with a gun in a duffel bag, go to the restroom and load it, and then walk out and start shooting.
I do notice a lot of lightly used and totally unsecure restrooms scattered around baggage claim areas. Maybe that can be looked at.
Has it been announced how and when this person obtained the handgun? And was his mental health status in the databases used to screen purchases?
It's complete overkill that will only impose greater burdens and inconvenience on innocent people while doing nothing to actually stop nutters looking to wreak havoc. The most it will do is temporarily inconvenience a nutter.
#43
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 3,526
The extra step of going into the baggage office seems like it would be easy enough. It would reduce the chance of having the wrong person take the bag with the gun, allows an ID check and also would put "a last set of eyes" on the passenger. You could also impose a 30 minute or 60 minute waiting period to pick the gun up. You could require a skycap to take the bag and load it into a vehicle. A fee could be charged to pay for the extra steps. The wait alone might uncover someone that is unstable or deter someone with criminal intent. Loopholes would remain for sure.
Still no solution for this person doing the exact same thing, but in Alaska and never even flyng: walk into baggage claim at ANC with a gun in a duffel bag, go to the restroom and load it, and then walk out and start shooting.
I do notice a lot of lightly used and totally unsecure restrooms scattered around baggage claim areas. Maybe that can be looked at.
Has it been announced how and when this person obtained the handgun? And was his mental health status in the databases used to screen purchases?
Still no solution for this person doing the exact same thing, but in Alaska and never even flyng: walk into baggage claim at ANC with a gun in a duffel bag, go to the restroom and load it, and then walk out and start shooting.
I do notice a lot of lightly used and totally unsecure restrooms scattered around baggage claim areas. Maybe that can be looked at.
Has it been announced how and when this person obtained the handgun? And was his mental health status in the databases used to screen purchases?
#44
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 3,526
Nope. I am totally against your suggestions, particularly the idea of additional fees.
It's complete overkill that will only impose greater burdens and inconvenience on innocent people while doing nothing to actually stop nutters looking to wreak havoc. The most it will do is temporarily inconvenience a nutter.
It's complete overkill that will only impose greater burdens and inconvenience on innocent people while doing nothing to actually stop nutters looking to wreak havoc. The most it will do is temporarily inconvenience a nutter.
#45
A FlyerTalk Posting Legend
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: where the chile is hot
Programs: AA,RR,NW,Delta ,UA,CO
Posts: 41,236
For those advocating burdensome requirements for arriving pax with checked firearms, keep in mind that unless TSA completely dropped the ball, like all other pax checking firearms, this guy got special attention in Alaska when he checked in. He had to declare his firearm and provide TSA with access to the bag before he actually surrendered it to the airlines.
He didn't set off any alarms there, and we are talking a part of the country where folks with firearms is not a rare and unusual sight.
He didn't set off any alarms there, and we are talking a part of the country where folks with firearms is not a rare and unusual sight.