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TSA is starting that RealID stuff again...

TSA is starting that RealID stuff again...

Old Feb 21, 2017, 10:19 pm
  #61  
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Originally Posted by cbn42
The feds don't have the right to dictate anything, but they have every right to decide what kind of ID their own agencies will accept. Given that the TSA accepts plenty of other forms of ID, including a passport from any country in the world, no state really is obligated to implement REAL ID if they don't want to.



Enforcement of the no-fly list.



People who believe in real freedom are focused on more important things than TSA ID checks.
The no-fly list for domestic travel is a pretty lousy "security" measure. It's easily circumvented.

People who believe in real freedom are focused on important things like the freedom of free people to travel within one's own country without being subjected to ID checks to do so. There are few freedoms more fundamental to being a free real person than the ability to travel and to travel without needing prior governmental approval to do so.
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Old Feb 22, 2017, 6:40 am
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Passports are not free. They're currently $110.00, plus the cost of a photo and the cost to mail the app in. There are no provisions I'm aware of where you can have the fee waived due to financial hardship. Thus, requiring everyone to have a passport creates a financial hardship for many, which would mean that they cannot use commercial air transportation in the United States.

<deleted by moderator>. Other than revenue protection for airlines, who really cares who is flying on a plane? If they have no weapons, they're not a threat to the aircraft. End of story. TSA was created to protect against hijackings. No fly lists, shoe carnival, the war on water and all the rest do not protect against that threat at all.

Last edited by TWA884; Feb 22, 2017 at 10:44 am Reason: Going OMNI/PR
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Old Feb 22, 2017, 7:15 am
  #63  
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Originally Posted by catocony
Passports are not free. They're currently $110.00, plus the cost of a photo and the cost to mail the app in. There are no provisions I'm aware of where you can have the fee waived due to financial hardship. Thus, requiring everyone to have a passport creates a financial hardship for many, which would mean that they cannot use commercial air transportation in the United States.
Indeed.

Another issue with applying for passports (and other ID) is that applications for such are designed in such a way that even the innocent can too easily be threatened for making an incorrect claim on an application and have that used against them for years and years after getting and using the ID without any fraudulent intent.

Free Americans shouldn't have to place themselves in legal jeopardy for wanting to exercise what is a rather basic right -- and yet that is what ID requirements can do.
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Old Dec 28, 2017, 7:40 am
  #64  
 
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DHS blinked

Originally Posted by petaluma1
Yes, DHS will blink yet again.
And they did:

TSA: Domestic fliers can use old driver?s licenses until late 2020

The TSA is now giving different advice from signs that stated airport security changes would start Jan. 22, 2018....But Transportation Security Administration spokesman Mike England said Wednesday in a statement that people in all 50 states can use old drivers licenses until Oct. 1, 2020.
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Old Dec 28, 2017, 8:57 am
  #65  
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Originally Posted by petaluma1
Except for the District of Columbia, Puerto Rico and the country of NEW Mexico...
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Old Dec 28, 2017, 9:27 am
  #66  
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With Global Entry you get a GE Card, which can be used at ALL TSA checkpoints; the fee is $100* (many credit cards reimburse you if charged to that card) ditto for TSA Pre-check @$85. BUT, you must qualify for both GE and PC.
Up thread I noted in jest that I was heading to LAS and would check what the "odds:" were (and bet accordingly) that TSA (DHS) would "blink"...I should have bet [you can bet on games/races in LAS but not "other" things...but there are places where you can.]
*good for 5 years
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Old Dec 28, 2017, 11:11 am
  #67  
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Originally Posted by petaluma1
That's what the TSA spokesperson says. What he doesn't say is that an individual FSD can over-ride HQ - as can individual TDCs who may use their 'final say' to reject an ID that HQ says is 'generally' acceptable.
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Old Dec 28, 2017, 4:21 pm
  #68  
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Originally Posted by FliesWay2Much
Except for the District of Columbia, Puerto Rico and the country of NEW Mexico...
Don't forget Hawaii, seems some TSA screeners thinks it's another country too.
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Old Dec 28, 2017, 4:49 pm
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Originally Posted by Boggie Dog
Don't forget Hawaii, seems some TSA screeners thinks it's another country too.
It's really hard to keep up with "screener discretion."
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Old Dec 30, 2017, 1:17 pm
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I think that DHS blinked because if someone was denied the ability to fly domestically in the USA due to unacceptable ID that person would have grounds to sue. As far as the outcome is concerned all bets would be off.
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Old Dec 30, 2017, 4:53 pm
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Originally Posted by Loose Cannon
I think that DHS blinked because if someone was denied the ability to fly domestically in the USA due to unacceptable ID that person would have grounds to sue. As far as the outcome is concerned all bets would be off.
They would have grounds to sue (maybe), but TSA has the bottomless taxpayer wallet to pay for attorneys to drag it out for months or years. If it got to close to a trial and it didn't look like 'anything for national security' excuse was going to fly, TSA would likely make a sealed settlement and nothing would change at the checkpoints.
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Old Dec 31, 2017, 5:39 am
  #72  
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Originally Posted by Loose Cannon
I think that DHS blinked because if someone was denied the ability to fly domestically in the USA due to unacceptable ID that person would have grounds to sue.
What grounds would they have to sue?
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Old Dec 31, 2017, 7:19 am
  #73  
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That no ID is required to travel in the United States.
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Old Dec 31, 2017, 10:56 am
  #74  
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I think we're getting into a gray area here.

It seems to me that the verbiage says that you don't have to be able to produce ID (after all, people do get mugged on vacation), but TSA has to be able to confirm your identity by other means. Obviously, if you're on the return leg of a trip, you probably don't have access to copies of your birth certificate, utility bills, rental agreements, etc. The assumption is that there's enough information in government databases for TSA to cross-examine you. Very early on, there were reports that TSA used voter registration to demand that pax without ID reveal how they were registered to verify their ID.

TSA (agency) or individual TDCs can decide that they can't confirm the identity of a pax without valid ID and refuse entry. There's no way for the pax to refute that, because the process is opaque - and the screeners always have the 'final say'.
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Old Dec 31, 2017, 11:37 am
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Originally Posted by chollie
I think we're getting into a gray area here.

It seems to me that the verbiage says that you don't have to be able to produce ID (after all, people do get mugged on vacation), but TSA has to be able to confirm your identity by other means. Obviously, if you're on the return leg of a trip, you probably don't have access to copies of your birth certificate, utility bills, rental agreements, etc. The assumption is that there's enough information in government databases for TSA to cross-examine you. Very early on, there were reports that TSA used voter registration to demand that pax without ID reveal how they were registered to verify their ID.

TSA (agency) or individual TDCs can decide that they can't confirm the identity of a pax without valid ID and refuse entry. There's no way for the pax to refute that, because the process is opaque - and the screeners always have the 'final say'.
Yeah, but that's the logical disconnect.

Ostensibly, you can fly if TSA can confirm your identity.

If you have a valid, state-issued ID, then obviously TSA can confirm your identity.

However, TSA will be claiming that unless you present the *special* RealID compliant ID, they cannot confirm your identity. Despite the fact that the ID you present is genuine, valid, verifiable, government-issued, photo ID, they claim they can't verify your identity.

Funny thing is, from what I can see, RealID mostly applies to driver's licenses and state IDs. However, there are plenty of Federally-issued IDs that are not ReadID compliant, yet will still be considered acceptable ID for the purposes of travel.

So, logical disconnect. Unless a license or state-issued ID is RealID compliant, it's not acceptable. But lots of other non-compliant IDs will be. Duh... makes your head hurt to think about this junk.
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