TSA is starting that RealID stuff again...
#61
Suspended
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Watchlisted by the prejudiced, en route to purgatory
Programs: Just Say No to Fleecing and Blacklisting
Posts: 102,103
The feds don't have the right to dictate anything, but they have every right to decide what kind of ID their own agencies will accept. Given that the TSA accepts plenty of other forms of ID, including a passport from any country in the world, no state really is obligated to implement REAL ID if they don't want to.
Enforcement of the no-fly list.
People who believe in real freedom are focused on more important things than TSA ID checks.
Enforcement of the no-fly list.
People who believe in real freedom are focused on more important things than TSA ID checks.
People who believe in real freedom are focused on important things like the freedom of free people to travel within one's own country without being subjected to ID checks to do so. There are few freedoms more fundamental to being a free real person than the ability to travel and to travel without needing prior governmental approval to do so.
#62
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Dulles, VA
Programs: UA Life Gold, Marriott Life Titanium
Posts: 2,757
Passports are not free. They're currently $110.00, plus the cost of a photo and the cost to mail the app in. There are no provisions I'm aware of where you can have the fee waived due to financial hardship. Thus, requiring everyone to have a passport creates a financial hardship for many, which would mean that they cannot use commercial air transportation in the United States.
<deleted by moderator>. Other than revenue protection for airlines, who really cares who is flying on a plane? If they have no weapons, they're not a threat to the aircraft. End of story. TSA was created to protect against hijackings. No fly lists, shoe carnival, the war on water and all the rest do not protect against that threat at all.
<deleted by moderator>. Other than revenue protection for airlines, who really cares who is flying on a plane? If they have no weapons, they're not a threat to the aircraft. End of story. TSA was created to protect against hijackings. No fly lists, shoe carnival, the war on water and all the rest do not protect against that threat at all.
Last edited by TWA884; Feb 22, 2017 at 10:44 am Reason: Going OMNI/PR
#63
Suspended
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Watchlisted by the prejudiced, en route to purgatory
Programs: Just Say No to Fleecing and Blacklisting
Posts: 102,103
Passports are not free. They're currently $110.00, plus the cost of a photo and the cost to mail the app in. There are no provisions I'm aware of where you can have the fee waived due to financial hardship. Thus, requiring everyone to have a passport creates a financial hardship for many, which would mean that they cannot use commercial air transportation in the United States.
Another issue with applying for passports (and other ID) is that applications for such are designed in such a way that even the innocent can too easily be threatened for making an incorrect claim on an application and have that used against them for years and years after getting and using the ID without any fraudulent intent.
Free Americans shouldn't have to place themselves in legal jeopardy for wanting to exercise what is a rather basic right -- and yet that is what ID requirements can do.
#64
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 3,526
DHS blinked
And they did:
TSA: Domestic fliers can use old driver?s licenses until late 2020
TSA: Domestic fliers can use old driver?s licenses until late 2020
The TSA is now giving different advice from signs that stated airport security changes would start Jan. 22, 2018....But Transportation Security Administration spokesman Mike England said Wednesday in a statement that people in all 50 states can use old drivers licenses until Oct. 1, 2020.
#65
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: An NPR mind living in a Fox News world
Posts: 14,153
#66
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: jfk area
Programs: AA platinum; 2MM AA, Delta Diamond, Hilton Diamond
Posts: 10,291
With Global Entry you get a GE Card, which can be used at ALL TSA checkpoints; the fee is $100* (many credit cards reimburse you if charged to that card) ditto for TSA Pre-check @$85. BUT, you must qualify for both GE and PC.
Up thread I noted in jest that I was heading to LAS and would check what the "odds:" were (and bet accordingly) that TSA (DHS) would "blink"...I should have bet [you can bet on games/races in LAS but not "other" things...but there are places where you can.]
*good for 5 years
Up thread I noted in jest that I was heading to LAS and would check what the "odds:" were (and bet accordingly) that TSA (DHS) would "blink"...I should have bet [you can bet on games/races in LAS but not "other" things...but there are places where you can.]
*good for 5 years
#67
A FlyerTalk Posting Legend
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: where the chile is hot
Programs: AA,RR,NW,Delta ,UA,CO
Posts: 41,236
#69
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: An NPR mind living in a Fox News world
Posts: 14,153
#70
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Let me check my Logbook
Programs: Southwest Rapid Rewards; AAdvantage; Alaska Mileage Plan; Wyndham Rewards; Choice Hotels
Posts: 2,347
I think that DHS blinked because if someone was denied the ability to fly domestically in the USA due to unacceptable ID that person would have grounds to sue. As far as the outcome is concerned all bets would be off.
#71
A FlyerTalk Posting Legend
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: where the chile is hot
Programs: AA,RR,NW,Delta ,UA,CO
Posts: 41,236
They would have grounds to sue (maybe), but TSA has the bottomless taxpayer wallet to pay for attorneys to drag it out for months or years. If it got to close to a trial and it didn't look like 'anything for national security' excuse was going to fly, TSA would likely make a sealed settlement and nothing would change at the checkpoints.
#72
Moderator: Manufactured Spending
Join Date: Jul 2011
Posts: 6,576
#74
A FlyerTalk Posting Legend
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: where the chile is hot
Programs: AA,RR,NW,Delta ,UA,CO
Posts: 41,236
I think we're getting into a gray area here.
It seems to me that the verbiage says that you don't have to be able to produce ID (after all, people do get mugged on vacation), but TSA has to be able to confirm your identity by other means. Obviously, if you're on the return leg of a trip, you probably don't have access to copies of your birth certificate, utility bills, rental agreements, etc. The assumption is that there's enough information in government databases for TSA to cross-examine you. Very early on, there were reports that TSA used voter registration to demand that pax without ID reveal how they were registered to verify their ID.
TSA (agency) or individual TDCs can decide that they can't confirm the identity of a pax without valid ID and refuse entry. There's no way for the pax to refute that, because the process is opaque - and the screeners always have the 'final say'.
It seems to me that the verbiage says that you don't have to be able to produce ID (after all, people do get mugged on vacation), but TSA has to be able to confirm your identity by other means. Obviously, if you're on the return leg of a trip, you probably don't have access to copies of your birth certificate, utility bills, rental agreements, etc. The assumption is that there's enough information in government databases for TSA to cross-examine you. Very early on, there were reports that TSA used voter registration to demand that pax without ID reveal how they were registered to verify their ID.
TSA (agency) or individual TDCs can decide that they can't confirm the identity of a pax without valid ID and refuse entry. There's no way for the pax to refute that, because the process is opaque - and the screeners always have the 'final say'.
#75
Original Poster
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Baltimore, MD USA
Programs: Southwest Rapid Rewards. Tha... that's about it.
Posts: 4,330
I think we're getting into a gray area here.
It seems to me that the verbiage says that you don't have to be able to produce ID (after all, people do get mugged on vacation), but TSA has to be able to confirm your identity by other means. Obviously, if you're on the return leg of a trip, you probably don't have access to copies of your birth certificate, utility bills, rental agreements, etc. The assumption is that there's enough information in government databases for TSA to cross-examine you. Very early on, there were reports that TSA used voter registration to demand that pax without ID reveal how they were registered to verify their ID.
TSA (agency) or individual TDCs can decide that they can't confirm the identity of a pax without valid ID and refuse entry. There's no way for the pax to refute that, because the process is opaque - and the screeners always have the 'final say'.
It seems to me that the verbiage says that you don't have to be able to produce ID (after all, people do get mugged on vacation), but TSA has to be able to confirm your identity by other means. Obviously, if you're on the return leg of a trip, you probably don't have access to copies of your birth certificate, utility bills, rental agreements, etc. The assumption is that there's enough information in government databases for TSA to cross-examine you. Very early on, there were reports that TSA used voter registration to demand that pax without ID reveal how they were registered to verify their ID.
TSA (agency) or individual TDCs can decide that they can't confirm the identity of a pax without valid ID and refuse entry. There's no way for the pax to refute that, because the process is opaque - and the screeners always have the 'final say'.
Ostensibly, you can fly if TSA can confirm your identity.
If you have a valid, state-issued ID, then obviously TSA can confirm your identity.
However, TSA will be claiming that unless you present the *special* RealID compliant ID, they cannot confirm your identity. Despite the fact that the ID you present is genuine, valid, verifiable, government-issued, photo ID, they claim they can't verify your identity.
Funny thing is, from what I can see, RealID mostly applies to driver's licenses and state IDs. However, there are plenty of Federally-issued IDs that are not ReadID compliant, yet will still be considered acceptable ID for the purposes of travel.
So, logical disconnect. Unless a license or state-issued ID is RealID compliant, it's not acceptable. But lots of other non-compliant IDs will be. Duh... makes your head hurt to think about this junk.