jmastron

California initially considered mailing the card to the address provided to be the second second residency verification. This was apparently based on guidance from DHS that was later changed or was mistaken, and was apparently planned in other states also. The "who should have known" part isn't all that interesting to me.

In any case, from everything I can tell the fix is to mail a letter to those who have just one document on file -- that letter itself serves as a second residency document (just as any other utility bill, tax document, medical document etc does), and the receiver simply signs it and mails it back and is now fully compliant. No new card required, and as far as I know the existing card is fully accepted -- just that if you don't send the letter back, when it comes time to renew you'll have to go in with your docs again instead of renewing online/by mail. So this was an easily corrected non-issue despite the hysterical articles implying that everyone's license is immediately invalid and has to go line up at the DMV again RIGHT NOW!

My DL doesn't expire until 2021, but I have a passport, passport card, and GE card so will just keep one of those cards with me until then. My wife's recent renewal notice gives the option to either renew by mail (won't be a Real ID) or appear in person for a RealID, and gives what I consider plenty of warning about the upcoming flight requirements.

My recent experiences with the CA DMV -- kid getting permit and then DL, going back in between those to convert said permit/DL to RealID (our fault, we couldn't find SS card for the first appointment), registering a trailer, and replacing a car's delaminated license plates -- have all been pretty seamless. Plenty of appointment slots available ~2 months out (wife's renewal notice came 3.5 months before expiration) and when showing up with an appointment haven't waited more than 15 minutes. Reading and rereading the document checklists and having everything organized first helps a lot. I'm not saying it's perfect or that others haven't had significant problems, just that we haven't.

Boggie Dog

Of the licenses issued improperly how will TSA know which ones have taking the corrective action offered by the state?

petaluma1

Don't know if you read my comment upstream regarding renewal of a license. Mine had to be renewed this year and there was NO REAL ID information included with the documentation, not even a mention that allegedly it will be required next year. In fact, NJ has not even begun to issue REAL ID licenses; they were supposed to have begun last spring, now I think it's put off until next month. Think about the chaos that's going to be created by NJ residents alone when they show up at the airport without the proper "Papiere, Bitte."

I loved the ability to make an appointment at motor vehicles when I lived in CA; it worked like a dream. Here, you need to allow for several hours to conduct business at DMV as MV is such a mess they could never operate an appointment system. However, you can make an appointment at a couple of stations to have your car inspected ; that works fairly well.

Boggie Dog

Might want to keep that car handy if TSA offers no alternative to Real ID, and don't plan on leaving the continent.

jmastron

As best I can tell, the TSA can't and doesn't need to know (there's no new identifier on the card, other than the issue date I suppose). The CA DMV has stated that the RealIDs issued based on one address document are valid until up for renewal (at which point if you mailed back the verification you're good), and nothing from the TSA or DHS has contradicted that -- and if they were planning to refuse all California RealIDs that would be a pretty major story. I don't know if any database lookups would show the status difference (not that TSA currently does live databse lookup). This article has more info than I've seen elsewhere, including some of the emails between agencies that show the originally approved procedure vs the change:
https://laist.com/2018/12/27/calm_do...s_are_fine.php

Boggie Dog

That's the point, California issued Real ID's that for whatever reason are not compliant. Doesn't matter who made the error. A person with a non-compliant CA Real ID moves to another state and they except the CA Real ID on face value and suddenly this person may have a different state Real ID when the source documents did not meet the standard. Using the most conservative reading no California Real ID licenses should be accepted by TSA if issued before the correction was made.

jmastron

Only if you have a strict binary definition that requires 100% compliant or not. I'm sure that if the error had been that California was accepting invalid identity documents (not requiring seals on birth certificates, for example), that would be a major compliance issue that would invalidate the IDs and if widespread would indeed require a new card design and invalidation/non-acceptance at TSA of all of the old. That doesn't appear to be the stance DHS is taking over the number of residency documents presented. I wasn't intending to debate that decision or the merits of RealID, just to note that the actual correction in California is pretty straightforward. Safest would be to send back that letter before October 2020, then even a database lookup will show full compliance.

If you take apply for a RealID in another state you're going to need new residency documents for that state anyway -- in fact, as far as I can tell your other state's driver's license isn't even sufficient as an "identity" document (at least on the CA checklist); you need a birth certificate or passport. Having a DL from another state mainly bypasses the need to go through the learner's permit, driver's ed, and drive test process (most states you still have to take a written test).

catocony

Real ID driver's licenses have a small black star on the front. I assume that to keep the cognitive burden to a minimum, if this is implemented, then all TSA checkers will do is look for the black star. If it's there, proceed. If not, then ask for another ID and if none are available, begin the ID-less mambo method of getting through security.

TWA884

This subject has been thoroughly discussed in this thread:

lost_perspicacity

It's almost as if this whole concept has been stupid and doesn't really matter.

petaluma1

Except sometimes it's a white star inside a "gold" circle.

Boggie Dog

Or a white star cutout on a gold grizzly bear. There are 5 different stars.

gsoltso

(Emphasis mine) This is exactly correct. I didn't say I had a GREAT hope, just that I hope it is smooth...

gsoltso

I have seen no indication that that infrastructure is going away. We have a dedicated system, and the concrete steps in place to allow for folks to come in without an ID. Without that system, it would create a situation where someone that was robbed the night before, and had absolutely nothing with their name on it other than a ticket, would be unable to fly. That is one of the situations that our current process was designed to handle, there are tons of others, and I do not see them removing that capability from the process.

*It may happen, but I think it is so unlikely, that I would bet money on it remaining (and I never bet money unless I am at least 99% certain of something).*

WillCAD

And herein lies the crux of the whole debacle - TSA has an infrastructure in place to check the identities of those who show up without IDs (which is ludicrous on its face, anyway, as ID doesn't matter, only physical screening does, but whatever.)

After the RealID switchover, TSA will treat anyone whose ID is not RealID compliant as if they have no ID at all - a tremendous waste of resources, time, and taxpayer money, since most of those who get the fifth degree from TSA actually WILL have ID, it just won't be RealID compliant ID.

So, if I show up to fly with a non-RealID compliant driver's license, plus non-compliant photo IDs from a half-dozen other government agencies, I will still be poked, prodded, and interrogated as if I had no ID at all (because, you know, it's standard procedure, and we don't want to increase the Cognitive Burden on our ossifers by allowing them to make logical value judgments). And in the end, what does that accomplish? Nothing except wasting my time, TSA's time, and taxpayer dollars, because I had ID all along, but TSA chose to ignore it and treat me like a criminal.

Which is why the RealID stuff, as pertains to air transportation by common carrier, is a giant load of hooey.