Dual US/EU citizen traveling to EU after ETIAS goes into effect
Jun 18, 23, 9:58 pm
#46
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I find myself deeply concerned about the intricate web of travel protocols now in place for dual citizens of the EU and USA, especially considering the current ESTA, incoming ETIAS, and soon-to-be-required UK ETA.
A simple journey from the EU to the USA via London could become a juggling act of regulations. How can we navigate these requirements without tripping over bureaucratic red tape? On the way to USA you need to fly as a US citizen. On the way from USA you need to fly using US passport as well because thats the law. From what I understand it may possible to disregard this law and fly back using EU passport to satisfy the ETIAS condition. But now, we've got a wrench in the works with the British ETA, which has to be linked to the passport you're flying with. Does that mean I will need to apply for British ETA twice, once using US passport and second using EU passport?
This British system shall be mandatory for everyone who is not UK citizen. And it will be mandatory even for transit passengers it looks like, will it not be?
To all the fellow (US&EU duals) travelers on this thread, how do you foresee this system working? What's everyone else's take on this?
It's like we're handing over our life every time we cross a border. I am sick and tired of this personally. The world was turning without ESTA, and all ETAs. Is it just me, or does it feel like they're asking a lot? And are you as bugged by the privacy thing as I am?
A simple journey from the EU to the USA via London could become a juggling act of regulations. How can we navigate these requirements without tripping over bureaucratic red tape? On the way to USA you need to fly as a US citizen. On the way from USA you need to fly using US passport as well because thats the law. From what I understand it may possible to disregard this law and fly back using EU passport to satisfy the ETIAS condition. But now, we've got a wrench in the works with the British ETA, which has to be linked to the passport you're flying with. Does that mean I will need to apply for British ETA twice, once using US passport and second using EU passport?
This British system shall be mandatory for everyone who is not UK citizen. And it will be mandatory even for transit passengers it looks like, will it not be?
To all the fellow (US&EU duals) travelers on this thread, how do you foresee this system working? What's everyone else's take on this?
It's like we're handing over our life every time we cross a border. I am sick and tired of this personally. The world was turning without ESTA, and all ETAs. Is it just me, or does it feel like they're asking a lot? And are you as bugged by the privacy thing as I am?
Here is my recommendation:
US to UK
1. Apply for UK ETA using US passport due to stronger ties between US and UK.
2. Airline check in using US passport
3. Enter UK by showing US passport at UK border force.
UK to EU (suppose you take the Eurostar to Paris)
1. UK exit check at St Pancras, show US passport
2. 100 feet away, Schengen entry check performed by the French Police aux Frontieres, show EU passport to avoid ETIAS.
3. Descend in Paris Gare de Nord without any further formalilites.
EU to UK (suppose you fly from CDG to LHR)
1. Check in with the airline using your US passport and the previously approved ETA attached to your US passport.
2. Schengen exit check at CDG, use EU passport
3. UK border force at LHR, use US passport
UK to US
1. US passport all the way.
Electronic travel authorizations are annoying, but they do improve security because they allow border officials in various countries to do a background check well before the traveler arrives in the country of destination. They also make it easier to keep track of entries and exits of foreigners. In the end, this results in shorter processing times at passport control in various countries, which is a plus.
In my view, if we are going to have border controls, ETAs are the way to go.
However,
One might argue that border controls are unnecessary between friendly countries of similar culture and economic development. This, however, is a topic for debate in another thread, also on this forum.
If you are interested in discussing this topic further, please respond to a separate thread I am about to initiate on this forum.
Last edited by txp; Jun 19, 23 at 7:48 am
Jun 22, 23, 10:50 pm
#47
Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 246
Originally Posted by txp
In my opinion, the reason why people are confused about this issue, is that DHS recently introduced a pre-departure APIS requirement whereby airlines are required to transmit to DHS passport information, including country of issuance, for all departing passengers..
Originally Posted by Howard
At SAN and possibly at other US airports (?), they are now using CBP facial recognition for boarding international flights. In this scenario you don't present your boarding pass or a passport to board the aircraft. Instead, you simply walk up to the facial recognition device, and if it's green, you board the flight. If someone is a dual US/Canada citizen, is this facial recognition matching against their Canadian or US passport? Does it depend on which passport was used at checkin? If it's using the Canadian passport, wouldn't that be a concern with respect to the requirement to exit the US with a US passport?
Jun 24, 23, 5:50 pm
#49
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Not sure what the issue is?
Canada is the same thing with their ETA, where Canadian citizens can not get an ETA (though to be fair, US citizens dont need one either). Im a dual US and Canadian citizen - when traveling north to Canada I check in and use my Canadian document, when I come back south to US I use my US documents. Been doing this my entire life, and never an issue. So I fail to see why you couldnt do the same thing for a dual US-EU citizen.
Canada is the same thing with their ETA, where Canadian citizens can not get an ETA (though to be fair, US citizens dont need one either). Im a dual US and Canadian citizen - when traveling north to Canada I check in and use my Canadian document, when I come back south to US I use my US documents. Been doing this my entire life, and never an issue. So I fail to see why you couldnt do the same thing for a dual US-EU citizen.
Jun 24, 23, 8:57 pm
#50
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Not sure what the issue is?
Canada is the same thing with their ETA, where Canadian citizens can not get an ETA (though to be fair, US citizens don’t need one either). Im a dual US and Canadian citizen - when traveling north to Canada I check in and use my Canadian document, when I come back south to US I use my US documents. Been doing this my entire life, and never an issue. So I fail to see why you couldn’t do the same thing for a dual US-EU citizen.
Canada is the same thing with their ETA, where Canadian citizens can not get an ETA (though to be fair, US citizens don’t need one either). Im a dual US and Canadian citizen - when traveling north to Canada I check in and use my Canadian document, when I come back south to US I use my US documents. Been doing this my entire life, and never an issue. So I fail to see why you couldn’t do the same thing for a dual US-EU citizen.
I think what you are doing is fine, but my slight discomfort with your approach is that when you travel northbound the airline sends your APIS record to DHS for pre-departure enforcement and you are technically "exiting" the US with a Canadian passport. Many others have reported that this does not seem to be a problem, which is good.
On the other hand, my approach could cause problems on arrival in Canada in that CBSA will not be able to match my passport with APIS. But so far this has not been a problem for me. Of course, I can do that because Canada does not require ETA for US citizens.
But if one were to travel to, say, France, as a dual US/EU citizen, one could not do this because he or she would not be able to board the plane to Paris without ETIAS. In the case of a dual US/EU citizen the only choices on the eastbound light are (1) obtain ETIAS, check in using US passport, enter Schengen with EU passport, or (2) check in with EU passport and use EU passport all the way. Option (2), of course might create problem with DHS upon departure.
Still, my preferred solution would be to convince airlines to provide passengers the option to create two APIS records: one for the departure country, one for the destination country. This would be a lot simpler.
Jun 24, 23, 9:24 pm
#51
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There is no ROI from airline perspective to allocate funding to make this change and having to train employees on it. No reason to throw money to fix an issue that doesnt exist.
Such a change would cause confusion among vast majority of dual national passenger because most of the general public have no idea or care about what API is.
Now if authorities require airlines to submit in advance the actual travel document passenger will use, then there would be a business case for it.
Such a change would cause confusion among vast majority of dual national passenger because most of the general public have no idea or care about what API is.
Now if authorities require airlines to submit in advance the actual travel document passenger will use, then there would be a business case for it.
Jun 24, 23, 11:12 pm
#52
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I think what you are doing is fine, but my slight discomfort with your approach is that when you travel northbound the airline sends your APIS record to DHS for pre-departure enforcement and you are technically "exiting" the US with a Canadian passport. Many others have reported that this does not seem to be a problem, which is good.
Jun 24, 23, 11:35 pm
#53
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22 CFR 53.1(a) says "It is unlawful for a citizen of the United States, unless excepted under 22 CFR 53.2, to enter or depart, or attempt to enter or depart, the United States, without a valid U.S. passport." That's not the same thing as "without having the airline report their US passport information to CBP using APIS"; if you have a valid U.S. passport in your possession when you board the plane you are, in my very-not-a-lawyer opinion, in compliance with 22 CFR 53.1(a).
Additionally this regulation is not enforced.
Last edited by seawolf; Jun 25, 23 at 1:08 pm
Aug 29, 23, 1:10 pm
#54
Join Date: Mar 2022
Posts: 88
I'm a dual US-FR citizen, living in the US. When I go to Europe (France or anywhere else in the EU), I always have my US passport attached to the PNR because that's the most important of the two (can't return without it, and attached to Global Entry profile). I have never bothered trying to attach the EU passport on the outbound leg and the US passport on the return leg. I show my US passport to the airline on both ends, and only show my FR passport at the EU border control (both in and out).
Questions:
Questions:
- Nobody at the EU border has ever complained that my EU passport didn't show up on the reservation, automated kiosks or human agents. Is it because:
- the airlines don't transfer the inbound traveler info, or
- I am fully entitled to entry as a FR citizen regardless of paperwork lining up, so they don't care
- Would it be different if I went to a non-EU country where I am not entitled to unconditional entry, perhaps one where US citizens have to pay a fee on arrival but FR citizens don't? For example, El Salvador.
Sep 10, 23, 2:26 pm
#55
Moderator: Travel Safety/Security, Travel Tools, California, Los Angeles; FlyerTalk Evangelist
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Moderator's Note - Topic Drift
Please let's get back on topic (FlyerTalk Rule 5), that is Dual US/EU citizen traveling to EU after ETIAS goes into effect.
Several off-topic posts were moved to the "Dual Citizen Traveling from/to the US, which Passport to show/use, where?" thread in the Practical Travel Safety and Security Issues thread.
TWA884
Travel Safety/Security co-moderator
Several off-topic posts were moved to the "Dual Citizen Traveling from/to the US, which Passport to show/use, where?" thread in the Practical Travel Safety and Security Issues thread.
TWA884
Travel Safety/Security co-moderator
Sep 11, 23, 1:21 pm
#56
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In cases where the name of your EU passport is drastically different (married/maiden name, Lithuanian/Polish spellings, etc), it is entirely up to the check-in agent to decide which document to swipe and it needs not be the exact same spelling as the reservation. Logically, one will first present the document that has the same spelling as the reservation and then present the alternate document that would be used for entry.
Sep 11, 23, 1:30 pm
#57
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Let's just keep it simple.
On the way to Europe, check in with EU passport so that you don't need an ETIAS on US passport.
One the way to US, check in with US passport so that you don't need an ETA on EU passport.
Is there something with this approach that doesn't work?
On the way to Europe, check in with EU passport so that you don't need an ETIAS on US passport.
One the way to US, check in with US passport so that you don't need an ETA on EU passport.
Is there something with this approach that doesn't work?
Last edited by seawolf; Sep 11, 23 at 1:41 pm
Sep 11, 23, 3:08 pm
#58
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Its as simple as that and I dont believe even having different names on the two documents will be detrimental unless theres something technically specific that makes it difficult. But I dont imagine itll change much from before having travel authorizations. If the airline employee has that discretion (and tech access) theyll just see the proper passport and allow boarding.
Sep 11, 23, 6:15 pm
#59
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My sister has both US and EU passports, on AA.com I tried using the EU passport departing the US for Europe. It would not let me proceed without selecting if she has either an ESTA, visa or green card and entering respective data. I ended up pushing the OLCI thru with her US passport info.
My hope is that a solution will come for these situations if they ever become actual issues given how ETIAS seems to have the same implementation timeline as Real ID
