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-   -   New Evolv Technology (https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/checkpoints-borders-policy-debate/1807275-new-evolv-technology.html)

Boggie Dog Dec 8, 16 10:22 pm


Originally Posted by Pesky Monkey (Post 27584972)
It's millimeter wave with some facial recognition and computer algorithms. They claim "very low false positives".

Fail.

TSA always claims "very low false positives" <redacted>.

N830MH Dec 8, 16 11:52 pm


Originally Posted by FliesWay2Much (Post 27580309)
http://evolvtechnology.com/about-us/

There's a couple of other former TSA and DHS dweebs as well.

Oh, yes! That's him! That's John Pistole. I see him.

Schmurrr Dec 9, 16 1:59 pm

This might be better for airports (subject to advance public review of the machines' capabilities and effectiveness), but it also sounds like a technology that we could very well eventually see used in non-airport contexts (a sad thing, IMO). Fortunately, we've not seen whole-body scanners in mass deployment outside airports, but a less despicable technology might make inroads there.

guflyer Jan 13, 20 6:03 pm

Is Evolve Edge Security Screening Device a Metal Detector or a Body Scanner
 
Yesterday, I entered a bowling alley that is also a concert venue (Brooklyn Bowl) where they made me walk through an Evolve security device. I think it looks like the object in this link: https://evolvtechnology.com/products/evolv-edge/

The security staff told me that it was a high tech metal detector, but it looks more like a body scanner. Is this a metal detector or a body scanner? Does it use MMW or something else? I have had trouble figuring out what I went through. If this is a body scanner, this would be the first instance to my knowledge of a body scanner being used at a private business in the U.S.

TWA884 Jan 13, 20 6:21 pm

Hello @guflyer,

I merged your question into the existing thread on the Evolv Edge scanner.

TWA884
Travel Safety/Security co-moderator

Boggie Dog Jan 13, 20 6:33 pm


Originally Posted by guflyer (Post 31946534)
Yesterday, I entered a bowling alley that is also a concert venue (Brooklyn Bowl) where they made me walk through an Evolve security device. I think it looks like the object in this link: https://evolvtechnology.com/products/evolv-edge/

The security staff told me that it was a high tech metal detector, but it looks more like a body scanner. Is this a metal detector or a body scanner? Does it use MMW or something else? I have had trouble figuring out what I went through. If this is a body scanner, this would be the first instance to my knowledge of a body scanner being used at a private business in the U.S.

From the website you posted.


Real-Time Threat Detection: Detects metallic weapons and non-metallic items of interest.
Must employ a mixed technology screening method.

gsoltso Jan 14, 20 10:11 am


Originally Posted by GUWonder (Post 27576583)
Inspired by the movie Total Recall.

Holy crap! I was just sitting here thinking that is my fallback example of what I would like TSA Security to be like. :D

gsoltso Jan 14, 20 10:22 am


Originally Posted by yandosan (Post 27580682)
I am always skeptical about Brave New Algorithms that
are going to spot the bad guys or differentiate harmless weapons from deadly ones. Remember the 911 attackers only had box cutters and look what they did to NYC.
This sound more like Artificial Stupidity to me.

I am cautiously hopeful. The information that I have seen shows signs of promise, but I need more analytical information that they will gain from field testing. My first question for new equipment has always been "can it stand up to the rigors of being used in such high traffic areas". I remember the puffers well, and they still serve as a tale of tech that was really good, but not well suited to the checkpoint environment.

Boggie Dog Jan 14, 20 11:12 am


Originally Posted by gsoltso (Post 31949171)
I am cautiously hopeful. The information that I have seen shows signs of promise, but I need more analytical information that they will gain from field testing. My first question for new equipment has always been "can it stand up to the rigors of being used in such high traffic areas". I remember the puffers well, and they still serve as a tale of tech that was really good, but not well suited to the checkpoint environment.

From the companies website is this blurb:


HOW CUSTOMERS USE EVOLV EDGE Organizations such as Lincoln Center, Oakland Airport, Gillette Stadium, and LL Bean use Evolv to detect threats before they enter their venues while providing a non-intrusive experience. The Evolv Edge is designed for sites with single-file entrance flows where weapons (firearms, IEDs, and bare explosives) and non-metallic items of interest are significant concerns. These include places such as VIP entrances at sports stadiums and entertainment venues, corporate events, hospitality venues, boutique performing arts venues and more.
Being used at Oakland airport sounds good but in what capacity. Then the sentence about use at VIP entrances seems to suggest a weakness and suitability for more trusted or lower volume needs.

Being used for employee only screening per case study. Strike 3 and you're out!

It wouldn't take much to improve on the TSA'S Whole Body Imaginer.

Curious if it's known whether TSA has tested this device?

nachtnebel Jan 14, 20 4:38 pm


Originally Posted by guflyer (Post 31946534)
Yesterday, I entered a bowling alley that is also a concert venue (Brooklyn Bowl) where they made me walk through an Evolve security device. I think it looks like the object in this link: https://evolvtechnology.com/products/evolv-edge/

The security staff told me that it was a high tech metal detector, but it looks more like a body scanner. Is this a metal detector or a body scanner? Does it use MMW or something else? I have had trouble figuring out what I went through. If this is a body scanner, this would be the first instance to my knowledge of a body scanner being used at a private business in the U.S.


Interesting. I wonder what the resolution protocols are for these venues. I'm assuming hands in the genital areas would be a massive legal liability, so that's probably not in the cards. Interesting machine though.

guflyer Jan 14, 20 6:44 pm

Thanks for all of the responses. I was not happy to learn that I was misled by the security guard who claimed that the device was just an advanced metal detector, but I guess I should have known better than to trust what security screeners tell me about the screening devices that they use.


Originally Posted by Boggie Dog (Post 31949379)
From the companies website is this blurb:



Then the sentence about use at VIP entrances seems to suggest a weakness and suitability for more trusted or lower volume needs.

With the knowledge that I now have about this product, I would be bothered if I was a VIP and forced to go through this instead of being able to go through a traditional WTMD or opt for a pat-down.

jfunk138 Jan 15, 20 8:12 am

"weapons (firearms, IEDs, and bare explosives) and non-metallic items of interest"

Since a WTMD detects all but a few of the items in the weapons category, it seems pretty clear these machines are about finding those non-weapon, "non-metallic items of interest"

TWA884 Jan 15, 20 9:52 am

According to SecurityInfoWatch.com:


Similar to the TSA’s body scanners, the Evolv Edge solution combines millimeter-wave technology and a number of other sensors to non-intrusively screen people as they walk through the machine for threats. Unlike those airport body scanners that require people to enter, turn 90 degrees and put their arms in the air while columns scan the entirety of their body to create an image, the Edge system screens subjects as they walk between two columns and can produce an analysis of what someone may be carrying in about a hundredth of a second.

Mats Jan 18, 20 12:03 pm

The idea of the Evolv technology is so appealing: non invasive, minimal or no radiation risk, reduced queuing, more dignified.
But does it actually work? I recall the investment in "puffer" machines, which--quite literally--blew hot air.

I would like to see greater testing and trials of Evolv because it has the possibility of working out. Even the newest "eqo" machines still require "hands up" and turning around. The Rohde and Schwarz versions get rid of "I surrender" but still require turning around and "assuming the position," so to speak.

The Post article implies that this could rid of us of security bottlenecks. It could help, but it does not fix the liquid and shoe obsessions, which dramatically affect the time spent per passenger. An Evolv machine does not stop "blue light" ID inspections, the "name game," behavioral detection questions about one's pets and boss' phone number, etc.

gsoltso Jan 19, 20 8:49 am


Originally Posted by Boggie Dog (Post 31949379)
From the companies website is this blurb:



Being used at Oakland airport sounds good but in what capacity. Then the sentence about use at VIP entrances seems to suggest a weakness and suitability for more trusted or lower volume needs.

Being used for employee only screening per case study. Strike 3 and you're out!

It wouldn't take much to improve on the TSA'S Whole Body Imaginer.

Curious if it's known whether TSA has tested this device?

I have seen nothing officially about these being on our tech RADAR, but I would think (read that to mean I am 99.99% certain) they already have some working versions, and are nailing down the ability to scale up, the detection capabilities, and the ability of the item to withstand the normal rigors of a checkpoint area. I do like that it combines the WTMD/AIT screening into one head unit. I have often wondered why that was such a no-go for the industry - I mean, I am not a scientist, but is there too much interference/feedback from one to the other? Does the power/energy produced have a detrimental effect on the other tech? Soooooooooooooo many questions.

Like you I noticed the VIP context on the comments, so this may be a future device considered for Precheck and other low-risk populations, or, if it scales well, and the detection capabilities are up to snuff, the checkpoints period. I am interested to see more analyticals, and throughput capabilities. Can it be scaled up for checkpoint usage by making the space between the front and back larger, to compensate for more traffic? If we extend the walkthrough zone to allow for families, does it detract from the capabilities of the machine? Does it have a sustained screening rate of 100 per hour, or is it workable to get 400 per hour? More? What is the maintenance need for the machine? How often does it need filters changed? What consumables are involved? How does it have to be cleaned? There is a whole list of things that would need research before it could even be placed into a Beta/live environment testing situation.

Again, I am hopeful, but I am also realistic.

I am hopeful, but realistically so. If it is an improvement on the AIT, or an alternative that presents the ability to minimize the impact on the passengers, I am all for doing our due diligence, and then employing it.


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