It's not another thread at all. As a practical matter, people whose career involves traveling by air, cannot, for the most part, simply turn around and walk away from the checkpoint. Most people, as a practical matter, need to work, and suggesting that the answer to this is to quit flying (ergo, quit working) is totally impractical (among other things.)

The legal question is a non-starter; this is about whether people can continue as a practical matter, to pursue their livelihood, and whether it is appropriate for our government to require their genitals be inspected in order to get to work.

Don't include me in your "we". This is not what I signed up for when I enlisted in the Marine Corps. I don't remember anything about "I will destroy the Constitution.." when giving my oath. I told my representatives I didn't want the patriot act or the TSA back when this was getting started. There are those in this country that enjoy building walls and prisons, I am not one. Without taking this to Omni, I'll just post this from the linked article.

"A new Rasmussen Reports national telephone survey finds that 46% of Likely U.S. Voters now view most members of Congress as corrupt. That’s up seven points from June and the highest finding yet recorded. Just 29% think most members are not corrupt, and another 25% are not sure."

Here is my comment about giving consent.

If a sexual deviant post's a public announcement saying that if you let him in your house, entered his house or his van you are consenting to sex acts limited to only "feeling your groin area" including all age group and if you refuse you will be removed by police, arrested and fined up to $10,000 would this be legal. I think not. This is what the TSA is doing.

One could argue that TSA agents are not sexual deviants and what I wrote above is ludicrous.

Now read my new post on the link below about NAMBLA. Then click on the link I provided to a recent Federal Indictment of a TSA screener. I am not saying he was a member of that group, the group was only referenced to show that YES these people do exist. And we are allowing thousands of Federal agents to touch these children. Hell I even unknowingly hired a child molester without knowing it once and he passed a security background check - somehow.

http://tsaabusestory.blogspot.com/20...pect-when.html

I can answer for myself that I would absolutely have walked away from at least two flights if I had known how disgustingly my body was about to be violated. But no one told me. They just walked up and sexually assaulted me.

At BWI in 2004, I had no way of knowing and certainly had no warning that I was about to be penetrated with a foreign object. If I had been warned, I would have walked away.

In Delhi, I would have walked away if I had known that a woman was about to place her fingers on my nipples and twiddle them. She did not warn me, she just did it. If I had known, I would have walked away.

The real problem is that security people surprise us with their abuse, over and over. Susie Castillo said that she assented to a patdown because in her previous patdowns she wasn't sexually violated. And then, without warning, she felt a stranger's hands on her labia and broke into tears.

Even with all the news coverage, people still don't realize or don't believe that genitals are being rubbed. I have another friend, a Ph.D. in mathematics, who was sexually assaulted by a screener after refusing a body scan. My friend said she had absolutely no idea that touching her genitals and breasts would be involved, even after getting the verbal description from the screener, and this was in February 2011 after massive media coverage. This friend spent five hours crying afterward, and re-arranged her entire life to avoid flying in the future. She would have said no if she had known.

This lying to us about what will be touched makes a mockery of the idea of "consent". We don't know what we're consenting to!

Phoenix? Again? Really?!? At some point the stories circulating about the Phoenix airport are going to have a serious impact on Arizona tourism.

Although in many of the most egregious stories, it seems the Phoenix airport police are a major factor... attacking Phil Mocek and attempting to erase his video evidence, a police office prompted and convinced the hesitant TSO to press sexual assault charges against Yukari Miyamae (according to Yukari's interview), and the police refuse to take sexual assault charges against a TSA agent.

To me that is a striking contrast - prompting the TSO to press charges against a passenger, but refusing to accept a police report from a passenger against a TSO. I wonder if the blogger has a basis for a lawsuit on the grounds of due process or unequal enforcement or similar.

I'm pretty sure pmocek's adventures took place at ABQ, not PHX.

Stacey Armato's breast-milk-induced stint in the Plexiglas Box of Shame on the other hand was definitely at PHX.

This is what I'm hearing... iirc, the TSA says that they don't touch our privates, unless it's to resolve an issue, which starts at pat-down #2. Personally, the rubbing is a bit much, yet hey, such is life. And do I agree that the government should not touch us, without cause or suspicion, during an administrative search? Absolutely. Anyway, first pass is supposed to be genital-free. Yet... people who travel say they are being genital-touched, and they're tolerating it (which is what it fundamentally sounds is happening), to continue to travel. Which if all of this is true, the complaint isn't about what is happening, it's about how it's being done. If someone decides to continue employement that requires travel, and they choose to continue travel, then, imo, they have to take more ownership of fixing the "how".

What I see is the lack of a cohesive, decisive, measurable plan to coerce the TSA to deliver the very product they say they are committed to delivering.

And hence my opinion that the citizenry, flyers or not, now have a responsibility to get this word out, that not only what the TSA is doing is wrong (a political issue, as only the political position of Administrator can change this), yet how the TSA is doing their mandate (which is operational, and can be dealt with directly).

We are all part of the citizenry, some able to vote, some not. This mess was brought to exist by elected officials, and must be changed by elected officials.

As best I can tell, PHX is a disaster, and if I'm wrong, someone speak up. The DFSD and DAFSD-S positions appear vacant, and I can't find any reference to the AFSD-S position being filled. That means that the FSD (no matter how good or bad he is) is spinning plates by himself, and the TSM (if there is one) and below has no guidance or leadership. And if the PHX LE's see it's open-season, it's not unreasonable to expect that one path is the LE's over-ruling the TSOs on everything. PHX, by some, would be considered anarchy.

If you think PHX is bad, imagine what HNL could be like (with the current leadership vacuum). The FSD, DFSD, and AFSD-S positions are all vacant, presumably from fall-out from the un-screened luggage fiasco. The only probable reason it's still moving tin is that the Deputy Area Director (the acting-FSD) is presumably kicking chairs at every meeting.

PHX is my primary airport - and one of the reasons I no longer fly. I used to fly regularly from PHX to ATL and back, and given the TSA employees in both locations, I simply couldn't tolerate it any more.

So I changed jobs.

Phoenix is on my list of places never to set foot in again, both the city and the airport. Tucson is 1000 times more convenient.

My new 'home' airport is PHX.

(sigh)

Several years ago a TSA person was checking the trunks of every rental car entering the rental return (in one of the garages). Stated that said action was "mandatory at every airport" (not true) because of "9/11" and if I were a "true citizen" then I shouldn't mind anything they do.

I had half a mind to leave the car at the curb and let the rental company deal with it, but voted with my business instead: I have not returned to PHX since. The three trips I made subsequent to that event were by private prop plane into one of the GA airports nearby (Mesa & Scottsdale).

It's really sad that things are getting worse every day. What goes around, comes around. Some day, one of these screeners will be desperate for help on some level. I just hope I'm there so I can say, "Sorry, you're on the No Help List."

That is what happens when the TSA uses technology that generates images, instead of detecting explosives. Imaging technology will always lead to false positives with persons that have any kind of medical device.

I'd go further than that. I'd point, laugh, smile, and say "Guess you're just outta luck. Maybe if you hadn't been a pedophile working for a xenophobic organization that lies to the public and thinks the Boogey Man sleeps under their beds, I'd have considered helping you."

No TSA screener gets help from me, period... no matter what the request or need is. They could be laying on the ground disabled behind my car, and my only concern would be whether or not I could back out of the parking space without doing any damage to my vehicle or causing a claim against my insurance.

Cart before horse.

Learn the laws, then complain about how they are used. And as I keep saying, procedures are SSI, you can have all the policy you can find, but not procedures.

Kinda missed the "checkmate" a bit didnt ya.