LAX_JOHN

Hello:
I am new here and wondered if any frequent flier could help with my fear of passenger carry on security screening. I have not flown in 4 years and now my fear has grown.

1) If Airports in Europe do NOT require shoe removal and only have a metal detector (no mmw scanner like the US)- how are they effectively screening out people that try to board the planes with non metallic/ plastic explosives concealed under their clothing or in their shoes? like the Shoe Bomber, Underwear Bomber? This seems like a pretty big risk?

2) Can airport security staff (xray machines) detect an explosive in a carry on laptop?

I am planning to fly Lufthansa next month and going thru Frankfurt from USA to Asia and wondered as I have seen more terrorism in Europe than the US.

I appreciate anybody with knowledge providing me with some information and hopefully some re-assurance.

Thanks.
John

sbrower

Reassurance comes, individually, from the number of flights that have been completed without incident and from a true or false sense of security based on that history. There IS some risk. Perfect screening, of all passengers, would not remove the risk from mechanics, caterers, etc. So you need to decide whether they benefit of flying (or driving, or walking in the rain, etc.) is worth the risk.

Ari

There are many layers of security-- some visible, some not. Passengers are screened in other ways than just physically and some passengers are given extra scrutiny.

I would say you are safer on your flight than during your drive to the airport-- statistics bear that out.

YadiMolina

100,000 commercial flights occur every day on the earth in the 20 years since the terrorist acts of the early 21st century, ferrying billions and billions of passengers. Other tactics behind the airport screening may legitimately be scaring off potential attackers. But it's more likely that the threat just isn't there.

And, if USA screeners had ever detected a legitimate terrorist at the checkpoint, they'd be touting it repeatedly. But we hear nothing, they don't even bother to publicize the "we confiscated XXX weapons this week" business.

cargueiro

Admittedly I hsvent bern to US for s while due to Covid but on my last trip I dont remember bring body scanned at every airport. I would be surprised if all US airports bodyscan all passengers.

Bodydlscanners are increasingly common in Europe.

Increasingly dual view and computed tomography x-rays have explosives detection capability and these are becoming more widespread.

Nearly all airports also use explosive trace detection too.

In its most recent update to Annex 17, ICAO obliges contracting to states to ensure screening points have ecplosive detection capsbility. The older single view x-rays were harder to spot explosives with and regulators in Europe are increasingly phasing them out and requiring some form of combination of dual view or computed tomography x-ay often with explosive detection capsbility coupled with explosive trace detectors or body scanners.
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Section 107

First, welcome to FT!

2nd, As noted by the previous responses, actual incidences of threats to commercial aviation, even prior to 9/11, when taken in relation to the number of actual flights, are exceedingly rare and the probability that a flight you are on will be one of the targets is equally improbable.

3rd. Also, as noted, you are much more likely to have a negative event in your bathtub, crossing the street or traveling in an automobile than on a commercial flight. Your handle gives an indication you reside in USA, southern Caulifornia in particular. If so, and if you are comfortable riding SoCal's highways in an automobile, then you should be significantly more comfortable taking commercial aviation which has magnitudes lower probabilities of negative incidents, let alone terrorist-type incidents.

4. In regards to people secreting explosives not in metallic containers: the number of people in Europe with actual access to such materials, let alone those with access AND having intent AND having the capability to attack commercial aviation is astonishingly small. Government, aviation, and airline security organizations across the planet are pretty good at identifying and keeping tabs on such risks. Also, such devices still need metallic parts (wires, switches, power sources, detonators, etc.) for a complete effective working device - which personnel are trained to screen for and identify at passenger screening checkpoints.

5. Yes, airport scanners can detect items that appear to be explosive devices concealed in laptops or other common items. Screening personnel are specifically trained to identify such devices and single them out for additional screening.

So, sit back, (put your feet up if in F or J), have an adult beverage if you indulge, and relax and enjoy your trip!

GUWonder

I have about the same level of confidence in the airport security screeners at FRA as I do in the TSA screeners at LAX.

Personally, I'd be more worried about my safety on the ground around LA than I would ever be about my safety in the air or on the ground in Germany on a US-Germany-Asia routing where the flight is operated by LH.

Section 107

While I know we are trying to assuage his concerns, it occurs to me you haven't actually indicated what level of confidence you have for the TSA at LAX....

Carl Johnson

Really? I haven't flown out of FRA, but I have a way higher confidence in the screeners at FRA than I do the screeners at LAX. I've gone out of Amsterdam, Lisbon, Rome, Paris, London, Prague, and Zurich and they are fast and efficient. They make you take out your electronics and I have a LOT of electronics. Next time I fly I am going to sort things into plastic bins and put those in my carry-on. The last time I went through was in Paris and the screener took the back and went through the stuff in an orderly and efficient manner, and took about as much time as it take the boarding pass checker at a US airport to pass me through.

LAX_JOHN

Hey Carl:
I don't think fast and efficient (and polite and charming) matter as much as thorough and using the best technology to detect any threat.

I understand the odds are astronomical.

Thanks.

GUWonder

I don't find the FRA airport security screeners to be polite and charming. I just find them to be more consistent on average in terms of "personality". I enjoy my banter with TSA screeners more than with their German-equivalent, but that's not really going to make a difference to calm the nerves of anyone.

People, processes and technology matter. Germany uses technology at airports that works on about the same level as is typical at US airports. When it comes to following processes/rules, Germany tends to do better than the US. When it comes to the "quality" of people staffing the screening checkpoint, I think the TSA screeners are no better than the German-airport screeners.

Commercial aviation from FRA is probably more secure than from LAX or any other major TATL-gateway hub airport in the US. The TSA stops a lot of guns at the screening checkpoints, but they almost certainly also probably miss a lot of guns at the US airport screening checkpoints. The sheer number of guns on the streets in the US just makes for a much worse risk vector when it comes to guns getting by the airport screening checkpoint than is the case in Germany. Explosives? Way more readily available in the US than in Germany. Bomb know-how? It doesn't take genius to make a bomb. Nor does it take genius to move bomb components from the land-side of US airports to the airside of US airports.

From a people, process and technology stand-point + availability of weapons/explosives/incendiaries stand-point, FRA seems a better bet for aviation security than the US TATL gateway airports.

Carl Johnson

Oh, I forgot to mention the foreign airports I've departed from go through all your electronics by hand and really look at each item, and do this in about the same time it takes the TSA boarding pass checker to finish reading your boarding pass and ID. The TSA just puts your bag into the X-ray and then takes it back out if they don't recognize something; they then shunt you off to the side to wait for someone to check it by hand. Foreign airports, by contrast, go through all your electronic items as a matter of routine and manage to do this while keeping the line moving smoothly.

I have never had the impression that the TSA is more thorough than European airports, nor that they have better technology or know how to use the technology better.

I've found foreign airport screeners to be polite and impersonal, and to follow the rules. Germans in particular LOVE rules. Inconsistent adherence to the rules of their job is a major deficiency of the TSA compared to airport screening operations in other countries.

Mych

At FRA bout 6 yrs ago on a Saturday morning I was waiting near the gate for the first Singapore flight to JFK. About a half hour before boarding, a young, at most 25 yrs old, police office asked what flight I was waiting for and then asked for my my boarding pass. After looking at it, he appeared to be embarrassed, actually blushing, and then asked me to follow him to an area behind portable screens. Once behind the screen they apologized, saying that it was the US TSA that asked them to do this. They emptied my carry on bag on a table and closely examined the contents. Then came THE FRISK. This was NOT A PAT DOWN. Pat downs don't have full cuppage. It reminded me of a Friends episode when Joey described how closely his tailor measured him for a new suit.

_Mych