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Updated: EU To Require Electronic Travel Authorization [ETIAS] for non-EU citizens

Updated: EU To Require Electronic Travel Authorization [ETIAS] for non-EU citizens

Old Mar 12, 2019, 4:26 am
  #211  
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An issued ETIAS — whether called that or not — will be required at Schengen land/seaports too, and it’s a matter of when.

Governments may claim that ETIAS (and ESTA) are merely means to carry out pre-travel screening for travellers with so-called visa-free/visa-waiver access and aren’t visas — evisa or otherwise — but they too are de facto visas in all but name.
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Old Mar 18, 2019, 10:46 am
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Originally Posted by tecate55
What's this mean for US-resident dual US-EU nationals? Will they be able to travel to EU on their US passport with an ETIAS? Or will they be rejected from ETIAS because they're an EU national and need to get an EU passport?

There's a lot of US nationals that left EU decades ago with no intention of more than an EU vacation.

And even more "accidental" EU nationals because they had an EU parent/grandparent.

Will the ETIAS app ask if you're an EU national and reject any "Yes" answers? Then requiring travellers to collect their (grand)parents birth certificates, marriage certs, translations, apostilles, etc. to get an EU passport? Or renounce their EU citizenship (if they even can) ?

This is the current state with the US and Canadian approach to electronic travel authorization. Before the electronic system, the border agents didn't really care what passport you used, or your Canadian Permanent Residence from 1975. But the machine doesn't use its brain and just spits out a simplified "Oh, if you're an XYZ citizen wanting to visit XYZ, you're ineligible for ETA because you don't need a visa. Just use an XYZ passport/residence card".
IMHO think it will work similar to the US ESTA program. When you have the US citizenship and any other citizenship you do not need ESTA since you can enter the US with you US passport (I think there is even a rule that you must use your US passport for entering the US but I'm not totally sure) So in case you have an EU dual citizenship you just enter the EU with your EU passport. The passport is the only document that counts in this case. There are no "accidental" EU nationals. You might have the right to claim a citizenship of an EU country due to some ancestors that immigrated to the US but for the purpose of entering a country you will need passport and not just a claim. The claim is only good for applying at the embassy or consulate for the citizenship and getting an EU passport. So if you have an EU passport as a dual citizen you will not need the ESTIA. In case you don't know that you are eligible for an EU passport you have live with the fact hat you have to pay the fee for ESTIA. And I highly doubt that any EU country will hunt down anybody who might have a claim for a citizenship because some great great parent immigrated to the US, Canada or any other country in one of the last centuries. With the millions of emigrants that left Europe over the centuries this would be a bit crazy.

On the other topic of ESTIA / ESTA / ETA being a visa or not. IMHO they are an electronic authorization to participate in a visa-waiver program meaning that if you pass the authorization you do not need a visa. In case you fail the authorization your have to apply for a normal visa (for example when your ESTA authorization gets denied you can apply for a normal visa. The normal visa process is not linked at all to ESTA. It is even handled by two different departments. ESTA by the Department of Homeland Security and Visa by the Department of State)
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Old Mar 18, 2019, 8:14 pm
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Originally Posted by flyingfkb
I think there is even a rule that you must use your US passport for entering the US but I'm not totally sure)
If a US citizen, you'll need your US passport or PR card to get on the flight, otherwise the airline should deny boarding. If you show up at a land border, you're supposed to present one of those documents, but they're supposed to let you in if you can prove you're a US citizen. They can't really refuse a US citizen entry, US passport or not.

Originally Posted by flyingfkb
The claim is only good for applying at the embassy or consulate for the citizenship and getting an EU passport.
Depends on the country. For some, the citizenship isn't automatic, but for others it is. You go to the consulate to get your papers confirming your citizenship, not to apply for it. Just like an American without a passport.

Originally Posted by flyingfkb
So if you have an EU passport as a dual citizen you will not need the ESTIA. In case you don't know that you are eligible for an EU passport you have live with the fact hat you have to pay the fee for ESTIA.
It's not the 14 EUR or whatever I'm worried about. It's being eligible for an ETIAS at all.

Originally Posted by flyingfkb
And I highly doubt that any EU country will hunt down anybody who might have a claim for a citizenship because some great great parent immigrated to the US, Canada or any other country in one of the last centuries. With the millions of emigrants that left Europe over the centuries this would be a bit crazy.
Let's hope they keep that in mind when they create the application, but I fear that question 1 will be: "Where were you born?" and question 2 will be "Do you hold any citizenships in ________? (note: You can be a citizen even if you don't hold a passport)". Sometimes parents did register their children's birth, unbeknownst to the child later in life.

Originally Posted by flyingfkb
On the other topic of ESTIA / ESTA / ETA being a visa or not. IMHO they are an electronic authorization to participate in a visa-waiver program meaning that if you pass the authorization you do not need a visa. In case you fail the authorization your have to apply for a normal visa (for example when your ESTA authorization gets denied you can apply for a normal visa. The normal visa process is not linked at all to ESTA. It is even handled by two different departments. ESTA by the Department of Homeland Security and Visa by the Department of State)
The usual rhyme about it not being a visa is because you only need an ESTA/ETA to *board* a commercial plane/ship/bus/train if you're from a visa-waiver country. A New Zealander can still drive to the Canada without an ETA or a visa. The logistics can be a bit complicated, but they *could*: just apply for an ESTA, fly to Seattle and rent a car. (Seriously, this is what people do when they lose their PR card overseas).

Reciprocity is technically maintained, and everyone is happy about it, except for everyone's life that just got a bit more complicated (ie: half the planet's).
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Old Mar 20, 2019, 10:28 am
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This will curtail my travel to Schengen countries as I'm not into being fingerprinted.
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Old Mar 21, 2019, 11:44 pm
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Originally Posted by tecate55
If you show up at a land border, you're supposed to present one of those documents, but they're supposed to let you in if you can prove you're a US citizen. They can't really refuse a US citizen entry, US passport or not.
I think the CFR provides for a $500 fine for such a shenanigan. Whether that is enforced is a different issue.
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Old Mar 21, 2019, 11:56 pm
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Originally Posted by Ari
I think the CFR provides for a $500 fine for such a shenanigan. Whether that is enforced is a different issue.
For decades now, something like that hasn’t been enforceable against US citizens. Maybe I missed something that has again made something like that enforceable against US citizens. IIRC the amount was in the $500s but may have not been that exact figure.
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Old Apr 1, 2020, 5:38 pm
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In the Los Angeles Times:

ETIAS postponed

Additional paperwork for American travelers, known as the European Travel Information and Authorization System, or ETIAS, was to have been required for 26 countries beginning next year, but that date has been postponed until late 2022 and may come with a six-month or longer grace period.
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Old Apr 2, 2020, 2:55 am
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EU officials are saying ETIAS won’t be mandatory until 2023:

https://www.schengenvisainfo.com/new...urces-confirm/

https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/32256517-post42.html
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Old Apr 9, 2020, 2:14 am
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Nice. A faint silvery lining for non-EU travelers.
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Old Apr 9, 2020, 2:19 am
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There are plenty of other, more pressing, issues to deal with.
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Old Apr 9, 2020, 4:30 am
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Originally Posted by LondonElite
There are plenty of other, more pressing, issues to deal with.
It's been that way for a while and then some, as even last year this was already slated to be delayed until 2022.
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Old May 8, 2022, 4:51 pm
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I guess we will have to see how ETIAS plays out next year, I think it starts in May 2023.
It’s very cheap to get but if duals don’t have to, then I’d rather not bother.
maybe more readers will weigh in on this.
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Old May 9, 2022, 6:26 am
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Originally Posted by Countrygirl
And how will that new Schengen visa that cones into effect in 2023 apply to duals—we won’t have to get it because we already have EU passports? Will this somewhat complicate exit and entry procedures for duals since we presumably won’t need or have the visa? Just wondering……
I expect that EU citizens who are also US citizens won't be able to apply for an ETIAS authorization just as US citizens can't apply for an ESTA to come to the US.
Originally Posted by stimpy
As you said, we won't need it as EU citizens. When you arrive at the immigration check point in the EU you present your EU passport. No big deal.
...
I don't think this is correct. If you don't have authorization under ETIAS with your US passport or an EU passport in your reservation I'd expect that an airline will not let you on a plane to the EU. Some airlines may not enforce this via their automated systems, but some absolutely will (LH I'm looking at you!)

Originally Posted by QtownDave
As I understand it, for US citizens it will be just registering online instead of it being a new visa requirement. And I think it will be valid for 3 years.

Not doing so may only be an issue when leaving the US on a US passport if they are checking validity.
Just like ESTA is "just registering online." But you can bet that airlines will be checking validity. They dn't want to pay fined or send passengers back.
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Old May 9, 2022, 6:37 am
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Just wondering if a other issue may be if you have your US Passport, Global Entry, etc. in your airline’s profile and it doesn’t match up if showing them a EU passport when checking in.
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Old May 12, 2022, 5:16 pm
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Originally Posted by simpleSnow
Well next year most probably there will be European ESTA, so it will mean you will have to somehow present to the airline that you are EU citizen so that they don't make you apply for the travel authorization. Very similar to how one should show to airline he or she is US citizen when going back to US because US citizen cannot apply for ESTA. This is very easy to solve if given airline has their online system set up for multiple passports.

Then it becomes a matter of preference honestly, e.g. if you have bought a roundtrip ticket from US to EU:
- if you buy ticket with EU passport info, you only need to present yourself as US citizen on the return leg so they OK you not having American ESTA.
- if you buy ticket with US passport info, you only need to present yourself as EU citizen on the flight to the EU.
Even when it comes to ETIAS going live and being generally required, it will still generally work for some US passport users to fly into the Schengen zone without having any “European ESTA” associated with the Schengen-bound traveler’s US passport. US-EU dual-citizens and some mix of US(-only) citizens will continue to be able to fly from say the US to Denmark on the US passports without an approved “European ESTA”. A flash of the acceptable documentation for an ETIAS-waiver alongside a US passport will work still for at least some US passport-using travelers to enter the Schengen area without any “European ESTA”.
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