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Old Jan 2, 2019, 10:08 am
  #286  
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Originally Posted by txrus
But that's what dogs do naturally-just goes to show how poorly trained these dogs are.

However, since we are talking about the TSA, this is no surprise.
No, it is no surprise. If it weren't TSA, I would suggest that some of those screeners are pushing the dogs towards crotches and they are thoroughly enjoying watching people squirm and cringe helplessly

But no screener at TSA would ever do that, of course.
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Old Jan 2, 2019, 10:25 am
  #287  
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Originally Posted by txrus
But that's what dogs do naturally-just goes to show how poorly trained these dogs are.

However, since we are talking about the TSA, this is no surprise.
Of course this is what dogs do naturally. And that they are doing it apparently so frequently, implies that the dogs are not well trained.
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Old Jan 2, 2019, 12:40 pm
  #288  
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Originally Posted by petaluma1
Of course this is what dogs do naturally. And that they are doing it apparently so frequently, implies that the dogs are not well trained.
Or that they are trained to specifically target the genital area. I expect to see greater focus on backsides, too. TSA's hands-on policies have never really enabled them to delve as deeply and thoroughly as they'd like. Their concern is understandable, considering how much contraband concealed in the backside gets found in prisons.
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Old Jan 3, 2019, 10:00 am
  #289  
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Originally Posted by chollie
Or that they are trained to specifically target the genital area. I expect to see greater focus on backsides, too. TSA's hands-on policies have never really enabled them to delve as deeply and thoroughly as they'd like. Their concern is understandable, considering how much contraband concealed in the backside gets found in prisons.
Look at the picture in the second Twitter post quoted above. The doggie looks like he's headed right for that guy's butt.
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Old Jan 4, 2019, 6:02 am
  #290  
 
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We’ve not traveled much in the last 12 months so our recent experience in San Antonio International is limited. For years and years there have been all sorts of dogs in the airport as San Antonio has one of the major working dog training facilities in the US. Off the top of my head I’ve seen handlers with FBI, TSA, CBP, and DEA jackets/shirts over the years. Kind of got used to seeing dogs training in baggage claim and departure gate areas. I don’t recall many working security checkpoint lines but again our travel this past year has been maybe one or two trips.
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Old Jan 4, 2019, 6:20 am
  #291  
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Originally Posted by FliesWay2Much
Look at the picture in the second Twitter post quoted above. The doggie looks like he's headed right for that guy's butt.
Here's yet another one:

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Old Jan 4, 2019, 7:05 am
  #292  
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I'm not a dog handler but these pictures look improper on part of the K9 handler.

Any K9 handlers want to chip in and give an opinion?
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Old Jan 4, 2019, 9:12 am
  #293  
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Originally Posted by petaluma1
...and lots of drug-detection discussions in the article.
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Old Jan 4, 2019, 9:31 am
  #294  
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Originally Posted by Boggie Dog
I'm not a dog handler but these pictures look improper on part of the K9 handler.

Any K9 handlers want to chip in and give an opinion?
Totally agree. A handler should NOT allow the dog to get that close to the "target" - if the dog smells explosives (or drugs) it sits and looks at the target. Does make me begin to believe the dogs are being trained to go directly for the crotch. Yet TSA has been bragging about deploying "vapor wake" dogs. https://homeofvaporwake.com/tsa-inno...por-wake-dogs/
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Old Jan 4, 2019, 11:42 am
  #295  
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I wonder what will happen when a dog alerts on a pax and the only 'contraband' on that pax is an illegal drug - coke, say.

If LE is called and the pax is found with illegal drugs - but no other contraband that TSA would be looking for - will a possession case hold up in court?

The courts may say that the very act of buying a ticket and showing up at the airport constitutes consent to any searches, no different than being pulled over for a traffic stop and consenting to a search. The question arises: if the dog is not trained to alert on drugs and no aviation-related contraband was found, then what did the dog alert on?

I'm kind of surprised they don't seem to pay more attention to shoes. There have been two foiled attempts - the crotch bomber and the shoe bomber. Shoes go through the xray, but the xray still can't conclusively identify explosives (or so we are told). I don't recall hearing about people's shoes being confiscated, but folks being swabbed have generated false positives from walking through/around fertilizer. The xray can't alert on that and relatively few pax get their shoes swabbed, but I would think the dogs would be picking up on the fertilizer (or hand cream) that the swabs do.

Does anyone know if the dogs are more finely tuned than the swab analyzers? Can the dogs recognize and ignore fertilizer traces that will set off the swab analyzer?

If the dog cleared something and the swab analyzer alerted, I wonder if the item in question would still be confiscated out of an abundance of caution.
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Old Jan 4, 2019, 5:24 pm
  #296  
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Originally Posted by chollie
I wonder what will happen when a dog alerts on a pax and the only 'contraband' on that pax is an illegal drug - coke, say.

If LE is called and the pax is found with illegal drugs - but no other contraband that TSA would be looking for - will a possession case hold up in court?
I think we have all seen over the years that nobody in any branch of government objects to the TSA searching for and finding drugs. Unfortunately, most everyone caught simply pleads guilty. There needs to be a carefully orchestrated scenario in which a passenger who is willing to put their reputation on the line (or at least their freedom) is "caught" with drugs by the TSA. Of course, the TSA will say that they simply notify LE when they find drugs. So, the inevitable 4th Amendment lawsuit will be against the hapless airport police rather than the TSA. I think that using airport security checkpoints as a dragnet for all sorts of things will continue and perhaps increase in scope because I see no members of congress of either party willing to do anything about it. Worse yet, I haven't seen any evidence that the newest and youngest members of congress even understand the Constitution.
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Old Jan 5, 2019, 7:59 am
  #297  
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Originally Posted by chollie
Does anyone know if the dogs are more finely tuned than the swab analyzers? Can the dogs recognize and ignore fertilizer traces that will set off the swab analyzer?

If the dog cleared something and the swab analyzer alerted, I wonder if the item in question would still be confiscated out of an abundance of caution.
I asked basically the same questions some time ago. It seems as if the dogs do NOT alert on traces of glycerin on hands or fertilizer on shoes. If they did, we'd be hearing a lot more about it on the TSA twitter site. https://twitter.com/search?f=tweets&...40tsa&src=typd
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Old Jan 5, 2019, 8:45 am
  #298  
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Originally Posted by petaluma1
Totally agree. A handler should NOT allow the dog to get that close to the "target" - if the dog smells explosives (or drugs) it sits and looks at the target. Does make me begin to believe the dogs are being trained to go directly for the crotch. Yet TSA has been bragging about deploying "vapor wake" dogs. https://homeofvaporwake.com/tsa-inno...por-wake-dogs/
It makes me think perhaps it's security theater, the dogs are basically untrained.
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Old Jan 5, 2019, 9:12 am
  #299  
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Originally Posted by Loren Pechtel
It makes me think perhaps it's security theater, the dogs are basically untrained.
Maybe the dogs gets the same 9 days of training that screeners get at the academy.

'You're at war': I went inside the new TSA Academy

The program, which costs the federal government $2,400 a student when factoring in travel and lodging, lasts nine days.
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Old Jan 5, 2019, 11:18 am
  #300  
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Originally Posted by Boggie Dog
Maybe the dogs gets the same 9 days of training that screeners get at the academy.

'You're at war': I went inside the new TSA Academy
From the link:

We learn about nitroglycerin, which people with heart conditions can take to widen their blood vessels and treat symptoms like chest pain. It's also the first modern high explosive, which was discovered by Alfred Nobel. And it was used in the Bojinka plot, a failed plan in 1995 to blow up 11 airliners, potentially killing thousands of passengers and shutting down air travel around the world.

Terrorists planned to put nitroglycerin in its liquid form in contact-lens-solution containers, carry them on board, leave them under seats, and get off the planes before detonation.
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