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This week in TSA history starting January 1, 2016

This week in TSA history starting January 1, 2016

Old Mar 7, 2016, 11:24 am
  #76  
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Originally Posted by petaluma1
I give up. Where/what was it?
JFK knife -- Passenger's name in the upper right; clearly a PA violation.
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Old Mar 7, 2016, 11:26 am
  #77  
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Originally Posted by FliesWay2Much
Anybody else notice the Privacy Act violation in this week's PV? Let's assume that the DHS IG already has a complaint on file.
I'm wondering if 'groin area' is TSA's hyped-up way of saying the pax took what appears to be a very small knife out of her pocket.
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Old Mar 7, 2016, 12:24 pm
  #78  
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Originally Posted by chollie
I'm wondering if 'groin area' is TSA's hyped-up way of saying the pax took what appears to be a very small knife out of her pocket.
..and why she agreed to a private screening? You know they used "groin" for a reason.
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Old Mar 7, 2016, 12:28 pm
  #79  
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Originally Posted by FliesWay2Much
..and why she agreed to a private screening? You know they used "groin" for a reason.
But that's the problem, isn't it? They want to suggest that somehow they detected something inside a body cavity and the pax removed it.

Except administrative searches aren't supposed to include disrobing and cavity searches (according to TSA) and the scanner didn't reveal anything because she was never scanned.
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Old Mar 7, 2016, 2:49 pm
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Old Mar 8, 2016, 5:14 am
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Originally Posted by chollie
I'm wondering if 'groin area' is TSA's hyped-up way of saying the pax took what appears to be a very small knife out of her pocket.
I totally doubt that she stuck her hand down her pants & pulled out a knife on her way to the private room. She probably had it in a very deep pocket.
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Old Mar 8, 2016, 10:00 am
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Originally Posted by petaluma1
I totally doubt that she stuck her hand down her pants & pulled out a knife on her way to the private room. She probably had it in a very deep pocket.
Or an ordinary front pocket, but "groin area" reads so much better than "pocket".
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Old Mar 9, 2016, 6:56 am
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Originally Posted by Section 107
Come on, Chollie, you are being completely unreasonable in your characterization of his (I assume GSOLTSO is a he or a him or if not and he is actually a she then I apologize and consider all the pronouns changed for accuracy) point of view. I don't see any posts where GSOLTSO has denied any of these claimed encounters did not happen. You are over exaggerating and wildly hyperbolizing his statements and sentiments.

In a different way, the President states a mass shooting occurs once a day, and we seem to hear about them once a day, and yet, I haven't seen one in almost 50 years. In a similar perspective - there are 10 to 20 bank robberies every day; I have even seen part of one in progress - but only one - in the past 50 years. How many have you experienced? How many bank robberies have occurred even close to where you live? Probably not very many - mostly likely you don't need even half the fingers on one hand to count them.

Even more to the point - in spite of the many thousands of in-the-line-of-duty firearm discharges each year by LEOs (not to mention the hundreds of persons actually shot by LEOs each year) it still continues to be the case that more than 90% of LEOs never draw their weapon on duty during their entire career let alone fire a round.

When one considers that there are HUNDREDS of MILLIONS of interactions with TSA each year of course outrageous and just plain egregious incidents occur - but that doesn't mean they are the norm for most TSO wingnuts.

(and No, I am not an employee of TSA)
Thanks. I take no offense at Chollies comments, they had a bad experience, do not feel safe carrying prescription medicine due to that experience, and I am unable to alleviate that situation. I understand why they are mad, I understand the frustration that I am unable to do anything for them. I work for the social media group, but in small doses here and there moderating and commenting, not full time (although I wouldn't turn down that opportunity if it rolled by!). You accurately present how things are with me. I have seen incidents where I disagreed with what happened, but I address those correctly. If it is not an egregious breach, I approach the individual and attempt to coach them away from that type of behavior, if that fails I then approach the next position up the chain with my concerns. If it is egregious, I stop what is happening now, and bring the supe in to make certain that we address it now - properly. I have just never witnessed the level of insanity that some folks here post about - at GSO, LAX, RDU, PHX or CLT. I have seen some videos from CLT that were unacceptable, and forwarded them up my chain of command like I am supposed to - but seeing as though I am a front line Joe, I am not necessarily advised of what actions are taken in cases like that.

Originally Posted by chollie
I have posted before that I think he is one of the 'good apple' TSOs.

That said, if he's worked checkpoints, he's seen thousands more interactions between pax and TSOs than I have as a somewhat frequent traveler. So it beggars belief that he could suggest that he has not personally witnessed any of the behaviors we complain about on here or that others complain about elsewhere. It seems statistically improbable and equally unlikely when talking about a TSO who also is a spotnik/BDO, suggesting that he should be particularly focused on pax and interactions.

I have tried to take him to task for the manner of his posting. We have many lurkers - I was one myself for quite a while before I posted, and some folks never do. When <deleted> posts, as a TSO, about certain things, naive travelers have to keep in mind that <deleted> can only attest to what happens when he is working at a particular checkpoint at GSO. It may or may not reflect what happens in PHX or LGA or ORD - and more often than not, it does not. GSO may be the 'perfect' airport, but unfortunately, I don't fly through there, so I need to filter anything he posts.

He says he would not have confiscated my nitro pills. He does not say that he is certain that no one else at GSO would have confiscated them. He also is at odds with the way the rules (supposedly the same SSI rules) were interpreted by multiple TSOs, LTSOs, STSOs and a suit when my pills were confiscated.

In that respect, it's no different than me reminding someone posting about Delta all the time on the UA forum that what happens on Delta doesn't really give me valuable insight on how things are done on UA.
I appreciate the kind words.

As I have said before, I have never claimed that I have not seen bad behavior in the checkpoints I have worked. I have properly addressed it each time I have seen it. Even with seeing bad behavior while working, I have not seen it to the level that many here post about. Just because I post that I am happy to work at my airport, and that we do not seem to have the same types of problems that others post about, does not mean that I have not had to call someone out for doing something wrong. I think the worst thing I have seen in a checkpoint was a fellow TSO arguing with a passenger over something, and raising their voice - I stepped in and smoothed things over a bit, held to the SOP and sent the passenger on their way. That is something that some TSOs do not seem to grasp (at least based upon what I read here) - stick to the SOP, be professional and courteous and 99% of the time, there is no challenge. When that 1% shows up, most often it is frustration or anger creating it, and maintaining your cool works those situations out much better than yelling back and forth...

Originally Posted by Boggie Dog
Hundreds of million of interactions each day and TSA doesn't even have one means for a traveler to question a screeners decision that leaves that checkpoint.

First step is to acknowledge a problem.

Edit to add:

GSOLTSO , <deleted> on the TSA Blog, won't even admit that there is no language on the TSA tool when checking to see if medical nitro is permitted. If they can't even write clear information on that then I feel there must be a reason. Apparently it's too difficult to give a clear answer or the item is truly allowed on a case by case basis dependent on the whim of the screener.
You grossly overestimate my ability to create change within TSA.

I have explained this to you several times, the green bar means it is ok, the red bar means no-go - out of literally hundreds of online interactions with people (some of them my own family), not a single other person has had a challenge understanding that. Being angry at TSOs/management not following the SOP, I understand 100%. Being confused by green bar =go, red bar = no go, I do not understand.

Originally Posted by Section 107
I don't believe he has said he has never witnessed any of the behaviors, just that he hasn't seen them at the level we describe here in our own little echo chamber.

That's all I am saying.

Of course, it probably isn't much different than a cop saying a beat down was just normal procedure for someone resisting arrest while the rest of us say, "gee, that seemed to be an awfully excessive use of force."
I beg to differ a bit, I personally address bad behavior when I see it - I also expect every other person that works for TSA to do the same thing (I also realize that is a bit unrealistic, but I can always hope).

Originally Posted by Boggie Dog
It's the other cops who don't say anything when they witness the beat down that is the real problem. That's exactly what happens at TSA Checkpoints when a traveler like Chollie has a problem.
I disagree, the real problem is that a Cop felt the need to beat down someone with no justification. The cop witnesses not taking proper action is connected, but a different problem entirely.

For the record, any passenger can ask for an STSO if they feel that TSOs are not following the SOP or have exhibited behavior that they consider unprofessional. They can also request to speak to a TSM - however, in many cases the TSM is not necessarily a realistic request, as they may not be onsite, or available within a reasonable time frame.

*Many have requested the presence of the FSD (or some of the folks on an FSDs staff) - I personally have never heard of an FSD showing up at a checkpoint to address a traveler concern, as the vast majority of FSDs are not actually at the checkpoint or maybe not even at the airport. I have heard of a few situations where an AFSD have shown up at a checkpoint to address a passenger concern, but never an FSD.

* I added this for some of the folks I have seen asking about the FSD or telling others to ask for the FSD - you can ask, but it would be a highly improbable thing for an actual FSD to show up at a checkpoint to resolve a passenger complaint.

Last edited by TWA884; Jun 26, 2017 at 2:04 pm Reason: Privacy / Conform to moderator's edit of quoted post
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Old Mar 9, 2016, 7:08 am
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Originally Posted by gsoltso
Thanks. I take no offense at Chollies comments, they had a bad experience, do not feel safe carrying prescription medicine due to that experience, and I am unable to alleviate that situation. I understand why they are mad, I understand the frustration that I am unable to do anything for them. I work for the social media group, but in small doses here and there moderating and commenting, not full time (although I wouldn't turn down that opportunity if it rolled by!). You accurately present how things are with me. I have seen incidents where I disagreed with what happened, but I address those correctly. If it is not an egregious breach, I approach the individual and attempt to coach them away from that type of behavior, if that fails I then approach the next position up the chain with my concerns. If it is egregious, I stop what is happening now, and bring the supe in to make certain that we address it now - properly. I have just never witnessed the level of insanity that some folks here post about - at GSO, LAX, RDU, PHX or CLT. I have seen some videos from CLT that were unacceptable, and forwarded them up my chain of command like I am supposed to - but seeing as though I am a front line Joe, I am not necessarily advised of what actions are taken in cases like that.



I appreciate the kind words.

As I have said before, I have never claimed that I have not seen bad behavior in the checkpoints I have worked. I have properly addressed it each time I have seen it. Even with seeing bad behavior while working, I have not seen it to the level that many here post about. Just because I post that I am happy to work at my airport, and that we do not seem to have the same types of problems that others post about, does not mean that I have not had to call someone out for doing something wrong. I think the worst thing I have seen in a checkpoint was a fellow TSO arguing with a passenger over something, and raising their voice - I stepped in and smoothed things over a bit, held to the SOP and sent the passenger on their way. That is something that some TSOs do not seem to grasp (at least based upon what I read here) - stick to the SOP, be professional and courteous and 99% of the time, there is no challenge. When that 1% shows up, most often it is frustration or anger creating it, and maintaining your cool works those situations out much better than yelling back and forth...



You grossly overestimate my ability to create change within TSA.

I have explained this to you several times, the green bar means it is ok, the red bar means no-go - out of literally hundreds of online interactions with people (some of them my own family), not a single other person has had a challenge understanding that. Being angry at TSOs/management not following the SOP, I understand 100%. Being confused by green bar =go, red bar = no go, I do not understand.



I beg to differ a bit, I personally address bad behavior when I see it - I also expect every other person that works for TSA to do the same thing (I also realize that is a bit unrealistic, but I can always hope).



I disagree, the real problem is that a Cop felt the need to beat down someone with no justification. The cop witnesses not taking proper action is connected, but a different problem entirely.

For the record, any passenger can ask for an STSO if they feel that TSOs are not following the SOP or have exhibited behavior that they consider unprofessional. They can also request to speak to a TSM - however, in many cases the TSM is not necessarily a realistic request, as they may not be onsite, or available within a reasonable time frame.

*Many have requested the presence of the FSD (or some of the folks on an FSDs staff) - I personally have never heard of an FSD showing up at a checkpoint to address a traveler concern, as the vast majority of FSDs are not actually at the checkpoint or maybe not even at the airport. I have heard of a few situations where an AFSD have shown up at a checkpoint to address a passenger concern, but never an FSD.

* I added this for some of the folks I have seen asking about the FSD or telling others to ask for the FSD - you can ask, but it would be a highly improbable thing for an actual FSD to show up at a checkpoint to resolve a passenger complaint.
<deleted>, spend some time reading the comments at AskTSA; if you open your mind, you will be educated into what goes on across the board at TSA checkpoints.

Last edited by TWA884; Jun 26, 2017 at 2:02 pm Reason: Privacy
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Old Mar 9, 2016, 7:55 am
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Originally Posted by gsoltso
Thanks. d of what actions are taken in cases like that.

You grossly overestimate my ability to create change within TSA.

I have explained this to you several times, the green bar means it is ok, the red bar means no-go - out of literally hundreds of online interactions with people (some of them my own family), not a single other person has had a challenge understanding that. Being angry at TSOs/management not following the SOP, I understand 100%. Being confused by green bar =go, red bar = no go, I do not understand.

*Many have requested the presence of the FSD (or some of the folks on an FSDs staff) - I personally have never heard of an FSD showing up at a checkpoint to address a traveler concern, as the vast majority of FSDs are not actually at the checkpoint or maybe not even at the airport. I have heard of a few situations where an AFSD have shown up at a checkpoint to address a passenger concern, but never an FSD.

* I added this for some of the folks I have seen asking about the FSD or telling others to ask for the FSD - you can ask, but it would be a highly improbable thing for an actual FSD to show up at a checkpoint to resolve a passenger complaint.
GSOLTSO, again the Red and Green bars are not defined and if a person was color blind it wouldn't matter anyway. Government is required to accomodate people with disabilities.

I challenged you to show us the written words on that TSA site that states medical nitro is allowed. If I'm not mistaken I think we are still waiting.

It is my understanding that a TSM is required to be in each terminal during screening operations. Is that correct or not?
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Old Mar 9, 2016, 9:28 am
  #86  
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Originally Posted by gsoltso
You grossly overestimate my ability to create change within TSA.

I have explained this to you several times, the green bar means it is ok, the red bar means no-go - out of literally hundreds of online interactions with people (some of them my own family), not a single other person has had a challenge understanding that. Being angry at TSOs/management not following the SOP, I understand 100%. Being confused by green bar =go, red bar = no go, I do not understand.
(bolding mine)

I didn't encounter a color-blind TSO. I encountered a TSO, backed by LTSOs, STSOs and a suit, who all agreed on the interpretation of the SSI rules about banned substances. You are the only one who has suggested that, hypothetically, you might not have confiscated the pills. You do not even know that everyone at GSO would interpret the rules the same way.

@AskTSA re-iterated the single most important non-SSI rule: any item can be confiscated at any time at a screener's discretion.

@AskTSA did not suggest that if you think the screener is way out of line, you should ask for a second opinion. @AskTSA makes it pretty clear that screener discretion trumps all rules, those available to the public and the secret SSI rules.

Originally Posted by gsoltso
* I added this for some of the folks I have seen asking about the FSD or telling others to ask for the FSD - you can ask, but it would be a highly improbable thing for an actual FSD to show up at a checkpoint to resolve a passenger complaint.
Yes, asking for an FSD or a TSM is unrealistic - those people have no interest in individual pax or their issues. IIRC, neither the FSD, a-FSD or TSM were available the day Rand Paul was detained by TSA.

Hardly surprising there are failures at the checkpoint - those failures are directly related to all those AWOL upper ranks who are off golfing or at conferences while the checkpoints run themselves.

It is important not to post nonsense that some folks will take seriously. Posting that nitro pills are always allowed when in fact the website does not support this does a big disservice to folks who come here in search of the information that TSA should provide but does not.

It's also important to post the limits of information. You can speak about your personal checkpoint experiences - all TSOs and pax can. You can not say with assurance what will happen at other checkpoints or what happens at your own when you are not personally working. You can not, for example, say with certainty that no one at GSO would interpret the nitro rules the way multiple people did at another airport. You speak for yourself and I think it's important for lurkers and infrequent fliers to realize that.

I originally came to this forum to lurk for the same reason as many other travellers: I was looking for reliable information and informational experiences. I already knew that, in common with other shady operators, TSA's website had nothing to do with the reality.

I hope your participation in TSA social media out-reach doesn't include associating yourself with the travesty called @AskTSA.

I don't know how it came up on their radar, but my very rarely-flying, very conservative co-workers are in an uproar about it - the waste of taxpayers money plus the deliberately hostile and insulting replies. It's like you (TSA HQ) have distilled years of bile and lies from the blog into a more compact format. Do you really think replying to a tweet with a photo complaining about a two-hour wait in line should be answered with a reminder that it's spring break? Particularly when it's clear from the photo that there are no 'spring break' kids in the Pre line?

Does someone at HQ really want TSA to be the most-hated, least-respected, worst-morale federal agency?

Last edited by chollie; Mar 9, 2016 at 12:33 pm
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Old Mar 9, 2016, 1:00 pm
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Originally Posted by gsoltso
Thanks. I take no offense at Chollies comments, they had a bad experience, do not feel safe carrying prescription medicine due to that experience, and I am unable to alleviate that situation.
Sorry, pal. Having potentially life-saving pills confiscated is NOT a "bad experience". What if Chollie had an angina attack and died on the flight? Would that just be a "bad experience" in your mind and that of your employer?
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Old Mar 9, 2016, 3:29 pm
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Originally Posted by FliesWay2Much
Sorry, pal. Having potentially life-saving pills confiscated is NOT a "bad experience". What if Chollie had an angina attack and died on the flight? Would that just be a "bad experience" in your mind and that of your employer?
Unfortunately, I think the answer to that is pretty obvious. <deleted> is smart enough to know his posts here are monitored and he's smart enough to choose his words carefully.

Had someone posted on here that I had, in fact, died or been left profoundly disabled because my pills were confiscated at the checkpoint and not available when I needed them on the flight, I'm sure <deleted> would be quick to point out that if I had just flown out of GSO when he was working, I would have been able to keep my pills.

Even the slightly interested lurkers here have noticed that TSA HQ is really bending over backwards to avoid changing the rules published on the website to allow nitro pills - both as pills and as a questionable substance. Why is that? Is it because the SSI SOP actually does prohibit the pills (as I was told), but because it's SSI, <deleted> can't disclose it?

Last edited by TWA884; Jun 26, 2017 at 2:02 pm Reason: Privacy
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Old Mar 10, 2016, 2:52 am
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Originally Posted by gsoltso
There were times where I was frustrated, especially at LAX. Imagine a situation where you have approximately 20 passengers, all being held up by one person with a language barrier that I personally am unable to conquer with hand signals. This went on for about 10 minutes, until one passenger, spoke with me, then relayed the info to another passenger in an entirely different group, they then relayed the information to the original passenger, who then understood that their shoes were alarming the WTMD... Now imagine that by a few thousand interactions before lunch, and you have a fairly accurate representation of how the average day goes working for TSA in Tom Bradley International Terminal at LAX. All of that frustration can create friction, especially for passengers that also have the language barrier - that is where the always be professional part comes in for TSOs.
(Emphasis mine).

Chollie's problem with the (apparently deliberate) TSA confusion over essential medication is a bigger issue that this, but all the same, this "language barrier" rubbish is ridiculous.

I have been (many times) through airport security in Bangkok, where I (and most of the other people in line) don't speak the local language, yet there was no delay because of a "language barrier". Same at Singapore. Hong Kong. Zurich. Rome. Tokyo. Osaka. Sao Paolo. Budapest. Amsterdam. Frankfurt. Munich. Milan. Abu Dhabi. Dubai. Never ever ever seen a problem at these security checkpoint due to language problems.

See, non-US international airports figured out decades ago that being an "international airport" carried a tiny risk that there might, occasionally, be passengers from other countries who therefore don't speak the local language. (Shocking, I know.) They therefore took steps to have signs with pictures to demonstrate the checkpoint rules, and hired staff who, if they can't speak the passenger's language, at least could work effectively to make themselves understood. (Hint: speaking English really loud and really slow is NOT the solution.) One enormous part of this is that the rules are consistent from airport to airport, checkpoint to checkpoint, passenger to passenger, so passengers with any experience or even those who can watch the passengers in front of them in line have a pretty good idea what to expect. Yeah, I know that would demolish the whole "inconsistency" thing that TSA uses to cover its inability to train staff properly.

Apparently (but not surprisingly) LAX hasn't figured this out any of this yet. Not sure other US so-called international airports are any better.
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Old Mar 10, 2016, 7:03 am
  #90  
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TSA has posted another Travel Trips post on the TSA Blog, blog.tsa.gov. TSA again tells us that TSA screeners can limit a persons liquid medication, even while that screener may not even have high school education. I've asked the TSA Blog to define a "reasonable amount" but expect to never get an answer.

TSA is also trying to blame their inability to timely screen travelers on spring break. So much incompetence from just one agency is hard to understand.
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