Exec_Plat

[QUOTE=FliesWay2Much;26243862]Yeah, and a victim that doesnt mind a drug bust on their record for 8-10 years until it is expunged.....

sethb

It isn't in the TSA's remit to do any of that. $11K in cash is no more of a threat to the plane than $9K.

sethb

Green, leafy substances like herbs I might bring back from a visit to a friend with a garden? Or mint from my parents' back yard?

gsoltso

I was actually referring to the processes that TSOs could learn to identify illicit drugs as being legal, not the drugs themselves. Nitro is not prohibited, and you should have never had a problem with carrying it, I have addressed that previously.

Boggie Dog

Should not have been a problem but was, just like you claim that the TSA "Can I Bring" tool says nitro pills are allowed but it never states such. Don't point at the green bar on the page, show the exact words saying nitro pills are allowed.

Tell us something useful, what can a traveler do to immediately resolve an issue should a question arise while at the checkpoint?

petaluma1

Why do screeners open items that they think are contraband?

http://blog.tsa.gov/search?updated-m...max-results=10

Seems to me that nothing should be opened by untrained screeners if they suspect there is an issue with the item. It could have been something designed to go boom while they were poking at it.

chollie

???

I'm sure the answer to this is SSI, but....why would TSA suspect that my meds were illicit in the first place? They were in their original, clearly labelled prescription containers (nested bottles), prescribed to me.

Their training (remember, this decision was supported by multiple people) led them to conclude that my LICIT drugs were ILLEGAL, not the other way around.

As you well know, nothing Blogdad Bob says is binding at the checkpoint - fortunately, since he is rarely truthful or accurate.

As those who have looked have noted, the official website does not ensure that a pax will be allowed to take nitro pills. The reply is clearly incorrect, because as any rookie TSO would point out if I showed it to him, the reply is addressing medical liquids, which have nothing to do with my pills.

If the website were accurate, it would still contain the following caution (I am paraphrasing): "in spite of anything you read here, the rules at the checkpoint are up to the screener's discretion".

I know you say you would not have confiscated the pills. However, that is the discretion of one person at one checkpoint at one airport, posted on an IBB.

Meanwhile, in real life, multiple TSOs, LTSOs, STSOs and a suit at a different airport agreed on the opposite interpretation of the same rules you say you would be following.

"Screener discretion" - the only rule that matters.

(No offense intended, <deleted>, but the way you describe life at GSO when you are working isn't much like what I experience at the airports I fly out of. Perhaps you wouldn't have confiscated a Buzz Lightyear Grip-Toy or crushed an ostomy bag either, but that's not much consolation to those of us who fly when we are being screened by someone other than you. I have to think about the rules at places other than GSO. This should not surprise you - as you know, TSA has never been shy about praising 'consistent inconsistency' and 'screener discretion'. Maybe you missed the part of the training that showed all the wicked things bad guys can do to take down a plane with legal drugs).

BSBD

Why? Because it's part of the show. They all know that the ACTUAL danger posed by "suspect" items brought through security checkpoints approaches zero. That's why the BNA screener had no qualms about opening my travel cigar humidor.

It makes for great theater, though.

goalie

And this week's Darwin award goes to the person who stashed his pot in a replica grenade

• 55 firearms were discovered this week in carry-on bags around the nation
• A replica grenade tobacco grinder with a small amount of marijuana was detected in a carry-on bag at Sacramento (SMF).
• Knives, throwing stars and hatchets were discovered in carry-on bags at PDX, SAN, TUS, CHO, LGA, JAN, DHN, CMH and AUS.

http://blog.tsa.gov/2016/02/tsa-week...ary-19-25.html

FliesWay2Much

It's pretty hard to get the TSA's War on Drugs into court as a winnable case when stupidity abounds.

gsoltso

And again, I will refer you to the legend of the page - green bar = allowed (and further explained as to whether it is allowed in checked or carry on or both). Red bar = the item is not allowed.

As for redress in a situation that arises at the checkpoint, the first step is to request an STSO.


I am a bit confused, nitro would not be an illicit drug, or considered one, the only possible explanation that I could come up with was a zero tolerance situation by the crew there (and that would be contrary to what is clearly posted on the TSA sites) pertaining to something with nitro written on it.

Let me break down my first comment about illicit drug discovery so there is no confusion:

1. Many TSOs learn to identify illicit drugs.

2. Many of these ways to identify illicit drugs are a completely legal learning process.

3. If a TSO believes they have discovered something that is an illicit substance, they are obliged (per regulation) to report it to local LEOs.

No offense taken, I know for a fact that I work at a pretty awesome medium sized airport. While we are far from perfect, our regular workday resembles absolutely nothing like I read here on a regular basis. I can't even imagine some of the things I read here happening at my airport. I have worked at LAX for a short time, PHX for a short time, and both RDU and CLT for sporadic periods of time - and the process, and flow is completely different than here at GSO. Things move much faster (at least from the TSO perspective), there is much more conflict, tons more people - all of which make for a completely different type of experience. I understand your frustration, as each of those different situations required me to modify my approach to the duties of the job (the basics are always the same, always follow the SOP, always be professional and polite to the passengers). There were times where I was frustrated, especially at LAX. Imagine a situation where you have approximately 20 passengers, all being held up by one person with a language barrier that I personally am unable to conquer with hand signals. This went on for about 10 minutes, until one passenger, spoke with me, then relayed the info to another passenger in an entirely different group, they then relayed the information to the original passenger, who then understood that their shoes were alarming the WTMD... Now imagine that by a few thousand interactions before lunch, and you have a fairly accurate representation of how the average day goes working for TSA in Tom Bradley International Terminal at LAX. All of that frustration can create friction, especially for passengers that also have the language barrier - that is where the always be professional part comes in for TSOs.

There has been no training indicating that legal drugs are a possible threat to bring down an airplane, just that if we discover what we believe to be illegal drugs (during the course of trying to clear a possible threat item), we report it to the local LEOs.

Boggie Dog

Are you willing to admit that there are no words on that page clearly stating that medical nitro is allowed?

I specifically said to not point out the green bar since there is no legend defining the bar. Do you also deny that there is no legend?

sethb

That's fine, but two things still need explaining.

How far are you supposed to go to search for potentially illegal drugs when you know that there's no threat to the airplane?

Under what circumstances are you allowed to refuse to let someone fly with prescription drugs labeled with the passenger's name and prescription on the vial?

chollie

<deleted>, I still do not feel safe carrying my nitro pills.

A green bar combined with text about liquids tells me (and an intelligent TSO) nothing about a bottle of solid pills. With my luck, I'd get a TSO who doesn't know much about medical nitro, but assumes that since the website refers to liquids, the pill form is not allowed.

Keep in mind, my pills were supposedly not confiscated because of the quantity or state (solid, not LGA).

My pills were confiscated because they were considered to contain an potentially explosive substance banned in any quantity.

Reports were made and very strong warnings issued. I do not want to face the threatened consequences if I ever take my pills and get challenged again. It is on record that I have been told by multiple levels of TSOs and a suit that the substance is banned. It is not a risk I am willing to take.

Ultimately, it doesn't matter if the bar is green, red or purple. It doesn't matter that the website returns LGA information when I query it about a solid pill med. It doesn't matter that there's a non-binding blog post on a blog where the information is frequently and demonstrably flat-out wrong.

According to everything coming out of HQ today, my pills can still be confiscated at 'screener discretion' and there is nothing you or anyone else can or will do to prevent that.

Here are two viewpoints of that crowded, backed up checkpoint with the language issue.

1) Massively overstaffed (compared to the rest of the world) screeners, who can leave at any time to attend to a bathroom emergency, who get regular breaks, who know that their word is law and if they are in a bad mood, they can take it out on the pax.

2) Overwhelmed pax with (as usual) no certainty about what to expect. Even if everything on your person has passed through dozens of checkpoints unchallenged, there's always 'screener discretion' to trip you up, as I found out when my nitro pills were confiscated. Loud barking screeners, treating pax like sergeants barking at POWs or a CO ordering a chain-gang crew around. Struggling to disrobe (or not or partially) while possibly dealing with balance issues. Past the TDC and still waiting and feel nauseous or an urgent need to go? If you try to leave the line hurriedly to get to a bathroom, you call unwanted attention to yourself and all TSOs standing around will immediately mobilize to stop you because you are behaving suspiciously. You don't dare lash out - the TSOs are the only ones allowed to do that with impunity. You try to prepare ahead of time to do your part to expedite, but then its a different set of rules again.

With all due respect, the language situation you encountered is a very rare event. What I posted about the pax experience, however, happens all the time. When you continue to post that you have spent time at other airports, and yet you have never witnessed anything that you see posted about here and elsewhere, it is kind of suspect.

Do you think we make up lies about the availability and hours of Pre? You really never experienced or witnessed a groin chop - or heard screeners defend it as the only sure way to know that a pax isn't hiding something there? You really never heard any barking? You really think that when you read Yelp reviews or comment sections in online articles about TSA, people are all lying when over and over again, even those defending the charades ask why TSA has to be so rude and confrontational?

Do you really think the stories about the confiscated Buzz Lightyear Grip Toy and crushed ostomy bag were fabrications? No one was really open-palm groping males in the public eye in DEN? Are they really all just FT fabrications?

With all due respect, I'd like to think a BDO/spotnik is a bit more aware of what's going on, and I find your unfailingly positive experiences statistically improbable.

Of course, I guess things look different when you're usually dressed in blue and you know that you can demand to touch me anywhere you want, how you want, and confiscate virtually anything of mine, at your 'screener discretion'.

Boggie Dog

You might think that there are two worlds, one with light, the other pitch black. I'll leave it to others to determine which world TSA lives in.