FlyerTalk Forums

FlyerTalk Forums (https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/index.php)
-   Checkpoints and Borders Policy Debate (https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/checkpoints-borders-policy-debate-687/)
-   -   Why do passport numbers change? What is the renewal process really? (https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/checkpoints-borders-policy-debate/1721022-why-do-passport-numbers-change-what-renewal-process-really.html)

worldiswide Nov 1, 2015 6:06 pm

Why do passport numbers change? What is the renewal process really?
 
Just thinking.. as I have to renew my passport..and where I need to update the number. . Airline sites, global entry..any place else? Why does the number need to change. Does the number changing mean it's a more or less secure document. If it didn't change, it would make it easier to connect visas from an older passport and maybe no need to carry multiples. And what happens in renewal? Not the physical book, but what info is validated? Why does it take so long? I've had passports for a long time, and I don't like to be without..so I'm asking. .

Kiraly Nov 1, 2015 6:23 pm


Originally Posted by worldiswide (Post 25648402)
Just thinking.. as I have to renew my passport..and where I need to update the number. . Airline sites, global entry..any place else? Why does the number need to change. Does the number changing mean it's a more or less secure document. If it didn't change, it would make it easier to connect visas from an older passport and maybe no need to carry multiples. And what happens in renewal? Not the physical book, but what info is validated? Why does it take so long? I've had passports for a long time, and I don't like to be without..so I'm asking. .


Passport numbers are like the VIN numbers in cars. The number is attached to the car, not the owner. When you get rid of the car, the number goes along with it. You don't transfer the number to a new car. The passport is the same; it's not your number, it's the passport's number.

worldiswide Nov 1, 2015 6:50 pm

I know it changes and I understand it's not my number.. but why is that? How long have passports been around? Did the early ones have numbers? It's just seems like a better control to associate something like a number with a person over time. How are the previous numbers cross referenced to the new one..seems like that needs to be done to know where someone has been.. what info is used to make the match. Is identity verification part of the renewal..

cestmoi123 Nov 2, 2015 11:12 am


Originally Posted by worldiswide (Post 25648537)
I know it changes and I understand it's not my number.. but why is that? How long have passports been around? Did the early ones have numbers? It's just seems like a better control to associate something like a number with a person over time. How are the previous numbers cross referenced to the new one..seems like that needs to be done to know where someone has been.. what info is used to make the match. Is identity verification part of the renewal..

Problem is, if the passport is lost/stolen, and the number is associated with the person, not the document, then you've got (a) two passports out there with the same number, and (b) no obvious way to tell which one is the valid one.

GUWonder Nov 2, 2015 12:49 pm


Originally Posted by worldiswide (Post 25648402)
Just thinking.. as I have to renew my passport..and where I need to update the number. . Airline sites, global entry..any place else? Why does the number need to change. Does the number changing mean it's a more or less secure document. If it didn't change, it would make it easier to connect visas from an older passport and maybe no need to carry multiples. And what happens in renewal? Not the physical book, but what info is validated? Why does it take so long? I've had passports for a long time, and I don't like to be without..so I'm asking. .

If the passport number didn't change, it would be more or less the equivalent of a national ID number or some near-equivalent thereof (e.g., a SSN).

I'm sure that if the US used SSNs as passport numbers, then that would increase the risk of surveillance and ID theft in the way that some states (prior) use of SSNs as driving license numbers (even some ten years ago or earlier) did. It would also make it problematic for cancellation purposes, although there are ready ways around that issue too.

Also invalidating a passport number has quite different consequences than invalidating a SSA number or any such thing approaching a national ID number that pretty much is considered to be generally lifelong for resident citizens of the country.

worldiswide Nov 2, 2015 9:39 pm

Thanks GU wonder. I guess it makes sense to change the number, because it is not a SSN or national ID. So ..is the physical assembly of the new book what takes so long. The number is I assume, a random number generator, and then the book is made. Is there any re verification of identity or does the old passport serve that purpose. Is there a review of pictures, or again, just thinking about it, is it scanned into some government database. With so much emphasis on data security, passport creation seems kind of low tech and vulnerable. I just don't l I keep it out of my possession for weeks and can't figure out what takes so long.

:D! Nov 3, 2015 2:04 pm

Until recently Singapore passports were issued with the holder's IC number. This number was allocated at birth on the birth certificate (if born in Singapore) and all subsequent passports had the same number.

However when biometric passports were introduced, they started to have new numbers, and the valid period was also reduced from 10 years to 5 years.

nrr Nov 3, 2015 8:11 pm


Originally Posted by cestmoi123 (Post 25651968)
Problem is, if the passport is lost/stolen, and the number is associated with the person, not the document, then you've got (a) two passports out there with the same number, and (b) no obvious way to tell which one is the valid one.

The first pp has (say) 123456789; the replacement (if orig is lost) would be 123456789-1 (or 123456789A) [the issuance of a pp with a suffix, would invalidate all previous pps--passcontrol agents would know this when they scan a pp on entry/exit.]

GUWonder Nov 4, 2015 2:13 am


Originally Posted by nrr (Post 25659867)
The first pp has (say) 123456789; the replacement (if orig is lost) would be 123456789-1 (or 123456789A) [the issuance of a pp with a suffix, would invalidate all previous pps--passcontrol agents would know this when they scan a pp on entry/exit.]

There are problems that may arise from such an approach, at least if the passport is to have fidelity to the purpose of further facilitating travel across jurisdictions.


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 10:19 am.


This site is owned, operated, and maintained by MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. Copyright © 2026 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Designated trademarks are the property of their respective owners.