petaluma1

Actually, I think the more people exposed to the boondoggle that is the TSA and its "security" practices, the better. Far more people travel by train than plane on a daily basis. If those people, commuters, have to line up everyday for a trip through WBS or a metal detector or be groped and/or have their briefcases/purses rifled then I believe the cry to do away with the TSA would increase to the point where it could not be ignored.

cestmoi123

Disagree on that "far more people" metric. Total US commuter rail weekday ridership is <2 million. Amtrak daily ridership is <100k. Combined, they're only slightly above the 1.7M+ people who fly every day.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...s_by_ridership

GUWonder

Worldwide, far more people travel daily by rail of some sort than travel by air.

Also, the above Wikipedia entry doesn't include all forms of US rail transport. The NYC subway system has what number of daily riders on a typical Tuesday during this month, 5.5M+?

RadioGirl

But more accurately it should have been called something like the "Transportation Passenger-focused Security Administration". Not that you focus on the security of passengers - far from it - but that the security measures are all focused on a threat vector involving passengers.

We have already seen - and discussed at length here - how TSA largely ignores the potential threat from airport or airline staff or within its own ranks, and as a consequence have missed criminal activities (gun or drug smuggling, theft, assault) perpetrated by airport/airline/TSA staff. In airports, TSA is still unable or unwilling to address this, as the optics of groping passengers and confiscating cupcakes provides more theater than screening vendors or each other.

Security risks from non-passengers are, as even a superficial evaluation would show, far more likely in rail travel than in air travel. Countless non-passengers have access to 1000s of miles of rail track, infrastructure and rolling stock with very little surveillance or control. Yet no doubt TSA will concentrate all its efforts on groping grandma and confiscating water from 4-yr-old Tiffany.

cestmoi123

True, but we were talking about the US.

That's why I said commuter rail.

petaluma1

However, you said about 2 million for commuter rail. GUWonder's number blows yours far out of the water. The NYC subway system alone has 3x the amount of users than those who travel by air on a daily basis.

cestmoi123

Yes, I said commuter rail, and that's what I meant, and what I cited. Subway isn't commuter rail. Metro North, NJ Transit, LIRR, for example, are commuter rail.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Commuter_rail

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...s_by_ridership

chollie

So...how does that result in TSA extending its mandate to football games and high school dances and the Pope's visit?

GUWonder

Petaluma said train, and yet you took issue with his accurate claim.

Train/rail includes subway. On any and all given days in the US, far more people take trains/rail in the US than fly in the US.

Boggie Dog

Do subways operate on rails?

gsoltso

There are several cooperative agreements between different federal agencies. When another agency requests support for the same type of screening performed in the airports/VIPR programs, TSA usually obliges if the logistics can be worked out. As for the high school dance, that was not TSA, TSA has never tasked individuals out to work at a high school dance. When I have seen information about TSA working at football games (at least most of the time), it was at a transportation venue close to the game location (mass transit, unloading/loading areas, etc). I am going to venture that the folks being used for the Popes visit are most likely at the request of the State department, or Secret Service or Protective Services.

Notice I did say *most* of the time above.

Boggie Dog

Snipped the above post.

Where does all of that manpower come from?

chollie

TSA was ordered to oversee Santa Fe school district gropes and inspections. TSA had zero problem with this; it was the school superintendent who shockingly (and wisely) ignored the federal judge's order and ordered State Patrol to oversee the gropes.

How did this come about? Let me refresh your memory, it's quite comical. Students had complained about invasive gropes at an earlier dance (obviously students who had never flown in the US). The judge's response was to have TSA oversee the gropes. Fortunately, a school superintendent with cojones wisely disregarded the federal judge's order and asked someone from state patrol to oversee the inspections.

I have always assumed that the school superintendent flew regularly and knew what a TSO-approved grope was. He recognized that the bar for state patrol searches was much lower - no breasts being grabbed, no hands in pants, no crotches and buttocks being stroked. Of course, state patrol (and school dance searches) don't start from a premise that the individual being searched has no rights and is guilty of something.

Yes. Just like you probably posted somewhere that *most* TSOs allow nitro pills. That's good enough for you, but not for me.

It's those pesky exceptions that make a mockery of the rules. Sometimes those exceptions put the health and even lives of people like me at risk.

Boggie Dog

The central issues with TSA screening activities are exceptionably poor oversight by management, ignoring or just plain ignorance of policy and procedures, and lack of any accountability to the public by TSA employees.

TSA is so broken that under its current leadership and structure correction is not likely.

chollie

From a pax perspective, there are no rules. From a TSA perspective, there are no rules that apply to the way pax and their belongings are treated.

The US is the only place I have ever traveled through an airport without a clear understanding of the rules, what's allowed and what isn't. I can travel safely through any airport in the world except the US with my nitro pills. 15 years on and, except for a non-binding blog post, TSA still has no definitive rule stating that nitro pills are allowed 100%. It's still up to the screener to make the call.

TSA used to tell me that if I didn't like getting my pills confiscated at the airport, I could always take a train or a bus. If TSA has its way, I'll be at risk of having my meds confiscated on trains or buses, too. What next? TSA 'random' road blocks to grope drivers and confiscate their meds?