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-   Checkpoints and Borders Policy Debate (https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/checkpoints-borders-policy-debate-687/)
-   -   Complaint against CBP - worthwhile or not? (https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/checkpoints-borders-policy-debate/1684275-complaint-against-cbp-worthwhile-not.html)

Blueskyheaven Jun 8, 2015 12:28 am


Originally Posted by Boggie Dog (Post 24934907)
I found that contact plus others on a CBP FAQ document. The link was in one of the current threads, perhaps on Omni.

OK thank you!

Boggie Dog Jun 8, 2015 5:37 am


Originally Posted by Blueskyheaven (Post 24935195)
OK thank you!

http://www.cbp.gov/sites/default/fil...omeToTheUS.pdf

The publication is titled "Welcome to the United States, A Guide for International Visitors"

Email, telephone and mailing address torwards the rear.

saizai Jun 8, 2015 6:06 am


Originally Posted by sfosuw (Post 24934942)
41 c.f.r. § 102-74.385

Nice. (https://www.law.cornell.edu/cfr/text/41/102-74.385 fwiw)

However, it seems to me that this is necessarily limited to what they can lawfully require in the first place. Feds can't make up laws / regs by just putting up a sign (e.g. a sign saying "Black people must use customs lane #1" would be obviously illegal). So again, what reg / statute says CBP can regulate cellphone use (esp. if it's to call a lawyer)?

ETA: Also, https://www.law.cornell.edu/cfr/text/41/102-74.365 - it only applies to "property under the authority of GSA". AFAIK airports are not.

sfosuw Jun 8, 2015 7:13 pm


Originally Posted by saizai (Post 24935987)
Nice. (https://www.law.cornell.edu/cfr/text/41/102-74.385 fwiw)

However, it seems to me that this is necessarily limited to what they can lawfully require in the first place. Feds can't make up laws / regs by just putting up a sign (e.g. a sign saying "Black people must use customs lane #1" would be obviously illegal). So again, what reg / statute says CBP can regulate cellphone use (esp. if it's to call a lawyer)?

ETA: Also, https://www.law.cornell.edu/cfr/text/41/102-74.365 - it only applies to "property under the authority of GSA". AFAIK airports are not.

Airports are not but the FIS area of an airport is always leased by the federal government (thru GSA) for DHS-CBP. Therefore all POEs are under the authority of GSA.

The regulation is pretty well written which states "a prohibitory, regulatory or directory nature". I doubt that any government agency would put up a sign that is of discriminatory nature thus opening up opportunities for potential lawsuits. The regulation also does not specifically prohibit one from urinating or defecating in the FIS area, do you think it's ok to do so just because they didn't specify that specific action on the CFR?

saizai Jun 10, 2015 3:00 am


Originally Posted by sfosuw (Post 24939764)
The regulation also does not specifically prohibit one from urinating or defecating in the FIS area, do you think it's ok to do so just because they didn't specify that specific action on the CFR?

That's almost certainly a statutorily enumerated criminal act, so I don't think it applies to my objection. Government can't require you to do anything it's not authorized to require; that's a fundamental tautology of our system. They have to have some law or reg saying phone use is always illegal in that area to put up a sign saying not to use your phone at all. If it's just for some purposes, then it has to be limited. I don't think they ever have the authority to order you to not call your lawyer; that's a fundamental right.

danielonn Jun 10, 2015 10:12 pm


Originally Posted by corporate666 (Post 24901147)
I arrived at BOS last night - upon getting to the baggage claim I turned on my phone as I was waiting a call from my ride. My phone rang as I was walking to the desk where you show your Global Entry receipt. I answered - it was my ride home - and they told me where they would be waiting and right as I was ending the call I heard the CBP agent at the desk say something, the following conversation ensued (as literally recounted as I can remember)

Me: Excuse me? I didn't hear you
CBP: I SAID SHUT OFF THE PHONE!!!
Me: Sorry, I didn't realize they weren't allowed here
CBP: WHEN I TELL YOU TO SHUT IT OFF, SHUT IT OFF!
Me: Uhh, sorry, I didn't hear you at first, I was waiting for a call about my ride
CBP: I don't care
Me: Excuse me?
CBP: I DON'T CARE!
Me: Well, I do care
CBP: I DON'T!!!
Me: I do
CBP: You like global entry?
Me: Yes
CBP: You keep up the wiseass bull**** and I will drop you from GE
Me: I was trying to be polite but it takes two to be polite
CBP: Go stand over at the yellow line for secondary inspection
Me: <lifts my bag off the floor to put it on the cart>
CBP: GO STAND OVER AT THE YELLOW LINE!!!
Me: I'm going, and I am taking my bags with me


After a couple of minutes, another officer came over and asked for my documents - I handed him my PP and GE receipt. He said "Oh, you're GE?" I said yes. He looks at the receipt and says "Did you forget to declare food items or something?". I replied that I had not, but the guy at the desk had become enraged when my phone rang as I was approaching the desk. This CBP agent sort of rolled his eyes and said "sorry, long day I guess... you're all set". I thanked him for his time, we made some small talk, we shook hands and he welcomed me home and I wished him a good night.

I have a few problems with the first CBP guy

1) He was rude and aggressive from the start, becoming more so when I didn't grovel before him

2) He threatened me (to remove my GE status).

3) He initiated a retaliatory secondary inspection for no reason other than he wanted to inconvenience me to the maximum possible.


I did not get the first guy's name or badge number, but I would recognize him in an instant and I could easily identify him in person.

My questions for anyone who read this far are

1) Is filing a complaint worthwhile? Or do they go nowhere and achieve nothing?

2) Have other pax filed complaints over rude/aggressive treatment by CBP personnel? Were they treated seriously or brushed aside?

3) Does a singular CBP officer have the authority to remove someone from GE? I believe all they could do would be initiate a strike against my membership, but I am sure there are circumstances whereby someone will be kicked out of GE. I am sure "the pax talked back to me" isn't grounds for GE dismissal, so presumably his thread to eliminate me was both a hollow one and/or signaled his intent to make something up which would be grounds to remove me.

4) In such cases, is it best to ask for a supervisor? When I looked at the CBP site, they have a complaint form where they ask for the name and badge number of the agent in question. So presumably CBP officers are obligated to give a name and/or badge number upon request? Is that the best option or is it better to escalate to a supervisor during the incident? If you ask for a supervisor do they have to comply or are they free to refuse?


Any other advice on handling such situations is appreciated. I realize stories like these are always told in the light that is most beneficial to the aggrieved party telling the story, but I have listed the exact language as carefully as possible.

Thanks.

I am sorry for your experience however while taxiing to the Gate as part of the Welcome to SFO message the Flight attendant says" All passengers will be required to clear customs and immigration irrespective of destination and claim luggage. The use of Cellphones are prohibited while inside the Customs Area.

There are signs that say that Cellphones are prohibited once you enter the line to speak to an agent. The agent is right. What if you were a drug dealer or planning to work illegally and were speaking to your boss to get prepped on what to say? When I arrive at SFO I call the driver in the hallway before entering the Immigration Line.

I would not complain. You fully knew that cellphones are not allowed at any security or customs checkpoint worldwide.

jphripjah Jun 10, 2015 10:17 pm


Originally Posted by danielonn (Post 24952216)
I would not complain. You fully knew that cellphones are not allowed at any security or customs checkpoint worldwide.

This isn't true at all. Most countries have no prohibition about using cell phones in the bag claim/customs area, they only have signs up saying don't use your phone when you're right at the passport control booth.

Boggie Dog Jun 10, 2015 10:19 pm


Originally Posted by danielonn (Post 24952216)
I am sorry for your experience however while taxiing to the Gate as part of the Welcome to SFO message the Flight attendant says" All passengers will be required to clear customs and immigration irrespective of destination and claim luggage. The use of Cellphones are prohibited while inside the Customs Area.

There are signs that say that Cellphones are prohibited once you enter the line to speak to an agent. The agent is right. What if you were a drug dealer or planning to work illegally and were speaking to your boss to get prepped on what to say? When I arrive at SFO I call the driver in the hallway before entering the Immigration Line.

I would not complain. You fully knew that cellphones are not allowed at any security or customs checkpoint worldwide.


So they could just use their phone in the hallway, like you do to call your driver, to get prepped on what to say or what have you.

Sounds like a silly rule.


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