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Originally Posted by Often1
(Post 23935239)
Turned out to be proof that things which seem important to an infintesimal minority aren't to the 99.9999% of the traveling public.
It was also useless because it didn't really matter to the Officers themselves. They are paid to work a shift. If they process 1 person, 10 people or 1,000 people during an 8-hour shift, the Officer gets paid the same. The only person inconvenienced is the person trying to make a living who gets stuck in line (if the lines were stuck). That person becomes an opt-out hater not a TSA hater. If that outcry had not happened, we would still be having naked pictures taken of us and viewed in a perv booth. |
Originally Posted by petaluma1
(Post 23973017)
What OptOut day and the ensuing outcry eventually led to was Congress telling the TSA to get rid of backscatter and the TSA ultimately coming up with the PreCheck system for screening those who fall for the extortion.
If that outcry had not happened, we would still be having naked pictures taken of us and viewed in a perv booth. |
Originally Posted by Often1
(Post 23935239)
Turned out to be proof that things which seem important to an infintesimal minority aren't to the 99.9999% of the traveling public.
It was also useless because it didn't really matter to the Officers themselves. They are paid to work a shift. If they process 1 person, 10 people or 1,000 people during an 8-hour shift, the Officer gets paid the same. The only person inconvenienced is the person trying to make a living who gets stuck in line (if the lines were stuck). That person becomes an opt-out hater not a TSA hater. Hm... so I guess TSOs really are mindless, heartless automatons who don't have even the slightest bit of compassion or human decency when they grope and abuse their fellow human beings. |
Originally Posted by LV702
(Post 23948809)
I guess my point is if 1000 people per checkpoint opted out, it would bring it down to a crawl.
Hell opt out of the baggage scan and insist that get a manual inspection as well. |
Originally Posted by BearX220
(Post 23981818)
So you alienate a bunch of other customers. Very productive. Politics is a game of addition, not alienation.
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Originally Posted by sethb
(Post 23982217)
It's the TSA telling them they can't move forward, not me. I don't have that authority.
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Originally Posted by BearX220
(Post 23982940)
The people stuck behind you know who's responsible for slowing down the system. You want policy changes, use the channels at our disposal in this system, and cut the self-indulgent, antagonizing theater.
I think it is contemptible that there are people who would sacrifice the basic human rights of others to their own convenience. |
Originally Posted by Schmurrr
(Post 23986225)
I think it is contemptible that there are people who would sacrifice the basic human rights of others to their own convenience.
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Originally Posted by BearX220
(Post 23986434)
And I think it's profoundly childish to expect airport theater -- particularly that which makes adversaries of fellow fliers -- to magically transform TSA or (bigger issue) the onerous security state. Arresting checkpoint flow so others miss their flights is not a "basic human right." You want change, get to work ejecting your congressman from office. Not as dramatic or exciting, but more effective.
I've heard the snarky threats 'those folks behind [me]' have made in my hearing, remarks made by people who don't have a clue what they're talking about. To the casual eye, I look fine. I am medically unable to assume and hold the position necessary for a good scan. Some people 'fake' limitations to avoid the NoS. Some folks (like me and John McCain, for example) have genuine limitations. At many checkpoints (still), when you are directed to the NoS and you explain that you are unable to assume and hold the position, the TSO tells you that it means you are an 'opt out'. You stand aside and wait for your groper, bag search and swab. 1) Do you think the folks who mutter in line and on forums know that I have a physical limitation? Or...are they making assumptions that anyone who doesn't go in the NoS is some kind of political trouble-maker who travels solely to cause headaches for pax and TSOs? 2) I'm not in charge of how checkpoints are run, but someone please explain to me: when I am directed to the NoS, I explain my medical limitations. I'm told to stand aside and wait for my groper. When that happens, how exactly does that slow you down? 3) Final question. Do the folks who get hostile and rant about missing flights because of opt-outs (medical or personal choice) also get hostile and rant about elderly people with arthritis who can't hold up the line taking their shoes off and putting them back on in front of the belt? Do they rant about men who stand in line for 20 minutes and then suddenly have to empty pockets (always takes at least three tries) and remove belts and jackets once they are at the belt? Do they complain about parents with kids and strollers? In short: if you're cool with the NoS and physically and medically able to use it, great (even though it is slower than the WTMD). Now do me the courtesy of being equally respectful of my situation instead of making insulting assumptions. |
Originally Posted by chollie
(Post 23986692)
I am a pax who routinely 'arrests' checkpoint flow, although I think it's a huge exaggeration to say I have caused anyone (other than myself) to miss a flight.
I've heard the snarky threats 'those folks behind [me]' have made in my hearing, remarks made by people who don't have a clue what they're talking about. |
Originally Posted by BearX220
(Post 23987196)
I'm not talking about your sort of case at all. A small incidence of opt-outs, whether for medical or political reasons, does not choke the system. (When the backscatter devices were deployed I always opted out myself.) I am taking issue with people who favor mass protest action that deliberately paralyzes the system. it is one thing, and a fine thing, to avoid the devices on grounds like yours. It is a dumb thing to wreck the functioning of a whole checkpoint in the mistaken belief it will make dumb security go away.
Second: When the NOS lines get bogged down, they run people through the metal detectors. More practically, however, except at JFK T1 I was NOS-free and grope-free in the US for over a year due to the Übermenschen lane. As somebody noted above, that's what pretty much shut down opt-out day, and as more and more people get pushed into the Übermenschen lane, the need to opt out will be negligible. |
Originally Posted by Schmurrr
(Post 23952133)
And what is that person now? Someone who is complicit in the ongoing erosion of civil rights.
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Originally Posted by Often1
(Post 23988017)
Nope. It's somebody who makes it to the gate faster and makes the earlier flight home.
Not a problem. I follow recommended guidelines and leave for the airport early enough to allow for any unforeseen delays. The length of time for me to tell the TSO I am physically incapable of assuming and holding the position in the NoS and for her/him to tell me 'stand over there' is much less than one missed traffic light. |
Originally Posted by BearX220
(Post 23982940)
The people stuck behind you know who's responsible for slowing down the system. You want policy changes, use the channels at our disposal in this system, and cut the self-indulgent, antagonizing theater.
The Security Theater Authority employee is the one telling them to wait and making them late. |
Originally Posted by BearX220
(Post 23987196)
I'm not talking about your sort of case at all. A small incidence of opt-outs, whether for medical or political reasons, does not choke the system. (When the backscatter devices were deployed I always opted out myself.) I am taking issue with people who favor mass protest action that deliberately paralyzes the system. it is one thing, and a fine thing, to avoid the devices on grounds like yours. It is a dumb thing to wreck the functioning of a whole checkpoint in the mistaken belief it will make dumb security go away.
I have detailed how long my experience being redirected takes nearly every single time I fly. You have not demonstrated how I delay you when the 'traffic director' points to the NoS, I say 'physical limitation', and I get told to 'step over there and wait'. That takes a matter of seconds and I have to wait for a special groper, so I don't even tie up the time of the 'anomaly groper' waiting right after the NoS to resolve ambiguous scans. Now it is possible (although it doesn't seem to happen as often) that a TSO may take it upon him/herself to hold up the entire line while s/he initiates a conversation with the individual opting out: questioning the pax reasons for opting out, asking the pax to demonstrate non-visible physical limitations, guaranteeing the machine's safety, etc. When that happens, it does cause a short delay, but that delay is not the fault of the pax, it is unprofessional conduct on the part of the TSO. If you are upset about a delay like that, then your problem is with the TSO/LTSO/STSO and management, not the pax. It's not unlike the distinction between the Pre and regular lines. At a junction, you get told to go one way or the other. There's no delay at that point: the delay is further along if you're in a 'slow' line. In my case, the delays I sometimes experience are entirely my own (super-thorough slow bag check, long wait for my groper, groper stops and has a conversation with another TSO on the way to check my swab, etc.) IF there's ever a problem with physically limited pax slowing the checkpoint down for any reason, then the problem is not with physically limited pax who want to travel, it is with TSA (mis)-management of the checkpoints. |
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