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-   Checkpoints and Borders Policy Debate (https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/checkpoints-borders-policy-debate-687/)
-   -   "You were randomly selected!" (https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/checkpoints-borders-policy-debate/1623785-you-were-randomly-selected.html)

guflyer Oct 28, 2014 1:36 pm

I have seen a tablet randomizer at MDW and ABQ, but at least at ABQ, it does not seem like it is always in use.

cbn42 Oct 28, 2014 3:16 pm


Originally Posted by Himeno (Post 23750860)
Which airports?I've been through a number of airports (SFO, LAX, SEA, ORD, RDU, JFK, CLT, PHL, BOS, DTW) since they reportedly started using them. I've never seen one.

I just saw one at LAX T4 recently. They are only used during peak times when the lines are long, and the idea is to funnel some people into Pre-check. The program is called "managed inclusion".

saizai Oct 28, 2014 8:28 pm

When you say 'a randomizer that points one way or another', I'm picturing the TSA using dowsing rods…

Kiwi Flyer Oct 29, 2014 4:28 am


Originally Posted by Kiwi Flyer (Post 23745712)
Yup. There are screening points in Australia where they "randomly" pick for explosives checks the first pax through after a gap with no passengers. Most times I can avoid the inconvenience but sometimes it is unavoidable (e.g. I'm the only transit passenger or can't wait long enough to let someone else go through first). I make a point to explain to the screener that their "random" selection is anything but random. Most of them don't get it but sometimes (rarely) you get one who understands.

One more screener educated. Many more to go.

The screener tried to explain it was random selection because she didn't know who would be coming through first (after a spell with no transit passengers). When I said I know from experience I'll get the explosives check if I'm first through and therefore if I really had something to hide I could just make sure I was second, a light bulb went off.

Schmurrr Oct 29, 2014 8:53 am


Originally Posted by HarryHolden68 (Post 23748139)
...It's 5 minutes of your time - smile at them and cooperate. They may even smile back.

It's inevitable, so sit back and enjoy it?

guflyer Oct 29, 2014 1:27 pm

Kiwi Flyer,
I am curious whether the screener decided to make any changes after the "light bulb went off." Is the screener even empowered to do so?

I think that this system is stupid, but I like it better than the random system because it makes it so easy to avoid the extra nonsense. I would feel differently if I felt that the swab had a real purpose besides theatre.

Kiwi Flyer Oct 29, 2014 6:00 pm


Originally Posted by guflyer (Post 23758702)
Kiwi Flyer,
I am curious whether the screener decided to make any changes after the "light bulb went off." Is the screener even empowered to do so?

I think that this system is stupid, but I like it better than the random system because it makes it so easy to avoid the extra nonsense. I would feel differently if I felt that the swab had a real purpose besides theatre.

This one was in Australia. It is my understanding the screeners on explosives duty do have some discretion as long as a reasonable proportion of passengers are tested (i.e. near continuous usage of explosives test).

Unless I get the same screener on another transit I won't know if she actually makes any changes. There have been some I've recognised from previous transits where I've noticed a change in behaviour to make it a bit more random.

Maxwell Smart Oct 30, 2014 10:37 am


Originally Posted by saizai (Post 23742961)
So… how many of you have heard that line, under what circumstances / plausibility, and with what result?

A few years ago, just as I walked through a WTMD, a screener standing on the other side said I'd been "randomly selected by my airline" for additional screening. And he hadn't even seen my BP, and (when asked) didn't even know which airline I was flying.

I'm now convinced I was being targeted for theft because after removing everything from my pockets, I was surrounded by THREE screeners who conveniently tried to block my view while a fourth picked up the bin with my wallet in it with his back to me. They immediately stopped when I protested loudly about not being able to see my belongings. As punishment I was then subject to a full-on BDO interrogation accompanied by a complete baggage dump. And within earshot of the gate agent paging me for final boarding call.

guflyer Oct 30, 2014 12:33 pm

Do you know if there was a long beep from the metal detector? This is generally what the random selection beep sounds like. Also, there have been reports that sometimes, flight crews get the random beep but are not given random selection, so random selection is given to the next passenger going through the WTMD. Perhaps the person was ready for the next passenger to be randomly selected in advanced.

RadioGirl Oct 30, 2014 7:30 pm


Originally Posted by Kiwi Flyer (Post 23754870)
One more screener educated. Many more to go.

... When I said I know from experience I'll get the explosives check if I'm first through and therefore if I really had something to hide I could just make sure I was second, a light bulb went off.


Originally Posted by Kiwi Flyer (Post 23760230)
This one was in Australia. It is my understanding the screeners on explosives duty do have some discretion as long as a reasonable proportion of passengers are tested (i.e. near continuous usage of explosives test).

Unless I get the same screener on another transit I won't know if she actually makes any changes. There have been some I've recognised from previous transits where I've noticed a change in behaviour to make it a bit more random.

Thanks for your efforts to educate them, but it's true about "many more to go." The Australian airport model is certainly based on "as soon as you've finished with one victim, pick the next person who comes through."

In one* airport I use a smaller checkpoint where I know that I won't set off the WTMD with my metal hip, but there's usually only a few other passengers there. I'm getting very good at adjusting the rate of repacking my laptop bag, while watching the ETD person in my peripheral vision, to let someone else get "randomly" selected for the swab.

At another* airport, though, I always get caught by the WTMD, get the grope, and the ETD station is harder to see while repacking, so I always get swabbed as well. The last time (just after Australia raised its security alert :rolleyes:) I had a particularly unfriendly groper and then the ETD woman waved me over. And there was none of that "do you mind?" or "have you done this before?" or "here a laminated sheet of paper" - just a rude "come over here, I need to check your bags." I rolled my eyes and said "this isn't really random if I get chosen every time" and she said "you don't have to do this; you can go back out the way you came in." Then while swabbing, she informed me that "this is an airport, you know." :rolleyes:

*I'm not going to identify airports 'cause I don't want them changing the WTMD settings or anything.

Maxwell Smart Oct 31, 2014 6:23 am


Originally Posted by guflyer (Post 23764451)
Do you know if there was a long beep from the metal detector? This is generally what the random selection beep sounds like. Also, there have been reports that sometimes, flight crews get the random beep but are not given random selection, so random selection is given to the next passenger going through the WTMD. Perhaps the person was ready for the next passenger to be randomly selected in advanced.

Nope, no long beep, no flight crew anywhere in sight, and checkpoint was not very busy (i.e., roughly 2-3 people in line at any given time).

Kiwi Flyer Oct 31, 2014 7:52 pm


Originally Posted by RadioGirl (Post 23766450)
Thanks for your efforts to educate them, but it's true about "many more to go." The Australian airport model is certainly based on "as soon as you've finished with one victim, pick the next person who comes through."

In one* airport I use a smaller checkpoint where I know that I won't set off the WTMD with my metal hip, but there's usually only a few other passengers there. I'm getting very good at adjusting the rate of repacking my laptop bag, while watching the ETD person in my peripheral vision, to let someone else get "randomly" selected for the swab.

Security at the international terminal in AKL used to do this, but switched to "as soon as you've finished with one victim, pick the next person at the x-ray". The difference being if you are selected no fumbling or other tactics will disuade the screener from testing you. There are still ways around this, but much harder.

China Clipper Oct 31, 2014 8:28 pm


Originally Posted by jkhuggins (Post 23745416)
With all due respect ... this is absolutely NOT random.

True enough, selecting every fifth person to arrive is not technically random, but it's a lot closer to random than letting TSA agents choose whomever they feel like.

Fact is, however, they do that even when there's a putatively 'random' process in place.

yandosan Oct 31, 2014 9:40 pm

Random is the world that sets them free from "Discrimination."
Imagine a world where gov't speaks the truth.
"Excuse me sir, we're going to rummage through your bags because, well, there's some vague, undefinable quality that sets people here on edge, makes us nervous."

Or "Your race and nationality match those of the 911 hijackers."

jkhuggins Nov 1, 2014 6:54 am


Originally Posted by China Clipper (Post 23772298)
True enough, selecting every fifth person to arrive is not technically random, but it's a lot closer to random than letting TSA agents choose whomever they feel like.

Perhaps --- though neither is close to an effective security mechanism.


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