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-   -   Pat downs... a serious question... (https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/checkpoints-borders-policy-debate/1602083-pat-downs-serious-question.html)

Jeannietx Aug 11, 2014 4:36 pm

Pat downs... a serious question...
 
I have been opting out since April 2003. I have a heart device, and the device maker and my electrophysiologist advise me to not go through any of the machines, so yeah, 11 1/2 years of pat downs.

I have been groped anywhere from a very light going over to those that would normally come under the label of sexual activity. Of course they also do the wipe thing every time.

So far I have never been told there would be an additional exam in a private room, apparently I've been very lucky. :rolleyes:

If this does happen, the secondary etc. what are my rights, or do I have any? Could I insist my husband be my witness?

I am always polite, smile, etc.

We travel (pleasure) quite a lot, both in and out of the country. As a 74 year old Caucasian, United States born, passport carrying citizen, I am sure I look like a threat. :eek:


SeriouslyLost Aug 11, 2014 4:41 pm


Originally Posted by Jeannietx (Post 23347420)
If this does happen, the secondary etc. what are my rights, or do I have any? Could I insist my husband be my witness?

The Grope & Assualt Room is only if you require a full secondary screening. An opt out pat down would usually be done in public. As for your rights, in a practical sense, you have none at the time, but many (in theory) after the fact or if you happen to get some TSO's who know what they're doing and care. Until the TSA/DHS gets severely slapped down in court they will continue on their merry little way.

I'd also suggest that rather than opting out actively (as in, telling them you're opting out) tell them that you can't go through the AIT for medical reasons. You might start getting a simple walk through and the occasional swab. It's all I get these days.

Jeannietx Aug 11, 2014 4:59 pm


Originally Posted by SeriouslyLost (Post 23347442)
The Grope & Assualt Room is only if you require a full secondary screening. An opt out pat down would usually be done in public. As for your rights, in a practical sense, you have none at the time, but many (in theory) after the fact or if you happen to get some TSO's who know what they're doing and care. Until the TSA/DHS gets severely slapped down in court they will continue on their merry little way.

I'd also suggest that rather than opting out actively (as in, telling them you're opting out) tell them that you can't go through the AIT for medical reasons. You might start getting a simple walk through and the occasional swab. It's all I get these days.

That is what I do, I say I cannot go through due to medical heart device. Some try to argue that I can. They then say "you are opting out?" to which I reply "yes".

jkhuggins Aug 11, 2014 9:07 pm


Originally Posted by Jeannietx (Post 23347521)
That is what I do, I say I cannot go through due to medical heart device. Some try to argue that I can. They then say "you are opting out?" to which I reply "yes".

That may be a tactical error. As has been reported here many times, the pat-down administered for an "opt-out" is much more thorough than that for those medically incapable of using the AIT. You need to insist that you are not "opting out", but that you are unable to use the AIT due to a medical condition.

cbn42 Aug 11, 2014 9:22 pm


Originally Posted by Jeannietx (Post 23347420)
I have been opting out since April 2003. I have a heart device, and the device maker and my electrophysiologist advise me to not go through any of the machines, so yeah, 11 1/2 years of pat downs.

The AITs haven't been around that long, so did your electrophysiologist advise you not to go through WTMD as well? If so, a medical opt out won't work and you will need a pat down.

To answer your question, in the rare case you are directed to a private room for a screening, you have the right to a witness of your choice.

Jeannietx Aug 12, 2014 5:36 am


Originally Posted by cbn42 (Post 23348506)
The AITs haven't been around that long, so did your electrophysiologist advise you not to go through WTMD as well? If so, a medical opt out won't work and you will need a pat down.

To answer your question, in the rare case you are directed to a private room for a screening, you have the right to a witness of your choice.

Yes, device maker and eletrophysiologist both say to not go through any screening machine. The reason is that TSA does not provide device makers enough information for them to be able to tell patients that they are safe. Edit to add: metal detector will sound which will then lead to pat down anyway.


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