Can I leave a checkpoint?

Old May 14, 2014, 9:56 am
  #16  
 
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Spiff as much as I dislike TSA & have been a victim of the explosive test myself, I'm pretty sure if they say some one tested positive the leo's would not be willing to chance it.
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Old May 14, 2014, 10:13 am
  #17  
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Originally Posted by coachrowsey
Spiff as much as I dislike TSA & have been a victim of the explosive test myself, I'm pretty sure if they say some one tested positive the leo's would not be willing to chance it.
I agree; law enforcement would probably not be willing to ignore a positive ETD. However, I've seen law enforcement dress down a TSA employee for summoning the law enforcement officer for no good reason.
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Old May 14, 2014, 12:38 pm
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Originally Posted by Spiff
. However, I've seen law enforcement dress down a TSA employee for summoning the law enforcement officer for no good reason.
Oh I know. My leo friends here at the airport have told me " couple stories".
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Old May 15, 2014, 8:10 am
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You can "choose" to leave the checkpoint. TSA can "choose" to keep all of your personal belongings that you've already submitted for screening, while they conduct a much more "thorough" search --- and claim that, by "choosing" to leave the checkpoint, you've "voluntarily surrendered" those items. TSA can "choose" to call the on-site LEOs and suggest that you be detained on suspicion of carrying WEIs inside an airport, which in many jurisdictions is a criminal offense.

Every "choice" has consequences.
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Old May 15, 2014, 9:43 am
  #20  
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Originally Posted by jkhuggins
You can "choose" to leave the checkpoint. TSA can "choose" to keep all of your personal belongings that you've already submitted for screening, while they conduct a much more "thorough" search --- and claim that, by "choosing" to leave the checkpoint, you've "voluntarily surrendered" those items. TSA can "choose" to call the on-site LEOs and suggest that you be detained on suspicion of carrying WEIs inside an airport, which in many jurisdictions is a criminal offense.

Every "choice" has consequences.
They can?
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Old May 15, 2014, 10:31 am
  #21  
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Originally Posted by jkhuggins
You can "choose" to leave the checkpoint. TSA can "choose" to keep all of your personal belongings that you've already submitted for screening, while they conduct a much more "thorough" search --- and claim that, by "choosing" to leave the checkpoint, you've "voluntarily surrendered" those items. TSA can "choose" to call the on-site LEOs and suggest that you be detained on suspicion of carrying WEIs inside an airport, which in many jurisdictions is a criminal offense.

Every "choice" has consequences.
You can also choose to collect your property before leaving or even announcing your intention to leave. TSA has no power to take your property from you.
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Old May 15, 2014, 12:28 pm
  #22  
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This is a very sticky legal area.

1. TSA clerks are not law enforcement, so they have no law enforcement powers.

2. It is further my understanding that, as a matter of agency policy, they are instructed not to detain anyone.

3. As citizens they have the right (subject to state law) to effectuate a citizens arrest of someone committing a crime using (subject to state law) reasonable force. So, for example, if a TSA clerk was in the airport restroom, and witnessed what they believed was an actual rape (a felony in, I believe, every state), they would have the right, as a citizen, to detain the subpect and even use reasonable force to do so. But they might get fired for violating agency policy.

4. Under TSA policy, the RPD is supposed to be in a private room, whether or not you agree. Of course, they can't force you into a private room. And if you refuse then they can all a LEO to assist (not sure what the charge would be), but the LEO almost certainly would not use bodily force to put you into the private room. Even if it proceeded to an arrest, thier "frisk" would be in public and you would be removed from "TSA control" before the TSA got to do a RPD. What does that all mean? Darned if I know.
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Old May 15, 2014, 2:59 pm
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Originally Posted by sbrower
What does that all mean? Darned if I know.
This has to be the most succinct and accurate description of TSA processes and procedures. Ever.
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Old May 15, 2014, 3:07 pm
  #24  
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What a pity that people don't carefully read what is written before going off half-cocked. TSA Officers most certainly have the authority to effect a temporary detention for law enforcement. That is what "calling a law enforcement officer" means. They can hold you where you are while a law enforcement officer is summoned and for the reasonable period of time it takes for law enforcement to get there.

For those who think they know better, try it and report back.
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Old May 15, 2014, 4:14 pm
  #25  
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Originally Posted by Often1
What a pity that people don't carefully read what is written before going off half-cocked. TSA Officers most certainly have the authority to effect a temporary detention for law enforcement. That is what "calling a law enforcement officer" means. They can hold you where you are while a law enforcement officer is summoned and for the reasonable period of time it takes for law enforcement to get there.

For those who think they know better, try it and report back.
Is there any reason to believe you are correct? I don't know of one.
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Old May 15, 2014, 5:08 pm
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Originally Posted by Often1
What a pity that people don't carefully read what is written before going off half-cocked. TSA Officers most certainly have the authority to effect a temporary detention for law enforcement. That is what "calling a law enforcement officer" means. They can hold you where you are while a law enforcement officer is summoned and for the reasonable period of time it takes for law enforcement to get there.

For those who think they know better, try it and report back.
And how are they to do this? They cannot touch you without permission. Perhaps this is what the circling of the wagons is for, intimidating and outnumbering the passenger.
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Old May 15, 2014, 5:17 pm
  #27  
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Originally Posted by Often1
What a pity that people don't carefully read what is written before going off half-cocked. TSA Officers most certainly have the authority to effect a temporary detention for law enforcement. That is what "calling a law enforcement officer" means. They can hold you where you are while a law enforcement officer is summoned and for the reasonable period of time it takes for law enforcement to get there.

For those who think they know better, try it and report back.
Please quote the statute/s and/or case law they would do that under. Otherwise, we'll just have to believe the lawyers (here and elsewhere) that are saying otherwise.
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Old May 15, 2014, 9:53 pm
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Originally Posted by MichaelKade
After opting out, if I "test positive" for explosives, can I choose to leave the checkpoint rather than go to the private grope room?
I don't think there's any way TSA can force you into a private room.

You may have to make a choice whether you want to go into a private room or not fly today.

I had the situation once where I alerted for explosives - they actually had to warm up the machine before they ran my swab, and surprise surprise it was positive. I refused to go to a private room, and I said that I do a lot of work with analytical scientific instruments, and the most likely cause was machine error due to lack of sufficient warmup/stabilization time. I said they could do whatever resolution they wanted in public, but I would not consent to anything so invasive that they could not do it in public. I explained I was willing to miss my flight if I had to submit to something so invasive that they couldn't do it in public, etc.

Eventually a supervisor came over, and admitted I had a reasonable position. The solution was to walk me over to a 'less public' area (a checkpoint lane that wasn't in use) and do the resolution 'rubdown' with the only difference being the front versus the back of the hands.

Turns out that before the resolution patdown, she ran a blank swab and it alarmed (apparently the first agent hadn't done that) and then another blank swab and it alarmed, and then we moved to a different machine and the blank swab alarmed. Eventually they figured out it was the box of new gloves. So always ask for them to run a control swab on their gloves before they pat you down if you are really worried.

I didn't push back by insisting there was no need to do the 'less public' second patdown anymore (now that they found and documented the false positive). I actually did want to fly that day. She did use the front of her hands, but it was less intrusive/offensive than many opt-out initial patdowns I have had.

The agent felt bad for the Charlie Foxtrot and basically said that the reason for the private room is they don't want to be seen 'groping' people. So I don't see how there could be any legal rationale for them forcing you to go into a private room, simply because they are embarrassed by their job. <shrug>

We won't know for sure until it goes to court or people are successful 'flexing their rights'.

---

TSA seems to be aware of the high number of false positives, and I have heard numerous accounts of alarms being resolved using non-default but reasonable procedures (i.e. re-running the original test, resolution patdown NOT in a private room, etc) when the passenger stands their ground. So my recommendation is to first try to reason with them, escalating until you find a reasonable supervisor who will address your concerns.

I'm not sure what the outcome would be or the appropriate behavior if you have triggered one alarm, and refuse consent for any resolution searches and ask to leave the airport.

My guess is that based on the administrative search doctrine, you cannot withdraw consent from a search in progress (see for example, US v Aukai). I think TSA can escalate the search using the least invasive techniques necessary to accomplish their goal of preventing weapons, incendiaries and explosives from getting on a plane.

But then again, if you say you no longer want to fly today, hasn't TSA accomplished that goal? That's how Affection got out of having his 'junk' groped. Of course, he hadn't triggered any alarms when he decided not to fly.

I do think if you trigger an alarm, there is a chance that LEO or FBI might have reasonable suspicion (based on the alarm) to detain you in order to ensure you are not carrying any explosives. There's probably some statute that covers that, where they would have jurisdiction, even after it is established that you are not flying today. Once you have alarmed, I don't think you're realistically going to get out of the airport (and definitely you won't get on a plane) until someone in authority has satisfied themselves that it was a false alarm using some reasonable test or search.

TSA might not have legal authority detain you until LEOs arrive, but it would be hard for you to push your way through a wall of blue shirts without ending up with an assault charge filed against you. And 'fleeing' the area probably won't bode well for the reasonable suspicion.

Last edited by janetdoe; May 15, 2014 at 11:20 pm
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Old May 15, 2014, 10:44 pm
  #29  
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Originally Posted by Often1
What a pity that people don't carefully read what is written before going off half-cocked. TSA Officers most certainly have the authority to effect a temporary detention for law enforcement. That is what "calling a law enforcement officer" means. They can hold you where you are while a law enforcement officer is summoned and for the reasonable period of time it takes for law enforcement to get there.

For those who think they know better, try it and report back.
You are 100% wrong. TSA employees cannot effect a detention. They can ask you to wait, but if you choose not to and they restrain you, they're committing a serious crime and may be also be dealt with by using measures to terminate the assault/detention.
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Old May 15, 2014, 11:12 pm
  #30  
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Originally Posted by Often1
What a pity that people don't carefully read what is written before going off half-cocked. TSA Officers most certainly have the authority to effect a temporary detention for law enforcement. That is what "calling a law enforcement officer" means. They can hold you where you are while a law enforcement officer is summoned and for the reasonable period of time it takes for law enforcement to get there.
TSA says on its own blog: "TSA does not have the authority to detain passengers. Only Law Enforcement Officers can detain passengers." http://blog.tsa.gov/2013/02/clarific...of-3-year.html
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