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Old Mar 11, 14, 9:35 am   #16
  
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Originally Posted by DIFIN View Post
my gosh, an American flag located at an unconstitutional endeavor !!!
Who runs the checkpoint?
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Old Mar 11, 14, 9:38 am   #17
  
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Originally Posted by jkhuggins View Post
One of these days, I'll need empathy when I don't deserve it ... and I hope someone will have pity on me and extend it to me. I can certainly treat others the way I would hope to be treated.

Note that, even in that terribly brief segment, it's not "just" filming. It's filming with an audio commentary. And it's the snarky sound of that commentary that suggests to me that this is the end of a much longer conversation: one that we really should hear in its entirety before rendering final judgment.
+1
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Old Mar 11, 14, 9:47 am   #18
  
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Originally Posted by jkhuggins View Post
Note that, even in that terribly brief segment, it's not "just" filming. It's filming with an audio commentary. And it's the snarky sound of that commentary that suggests to me that this is the end of a much longer conversation: one that we really should hear in its entirety before rendering final judgment.
Forgive me if I don't shed a tear for the TSA. Here is an organization that sees fit to dehumanize travelers at every turn: from "moat dragons" to "barkers," from pat downs of one's "resistance" to private room molestations screenings, it's hard for me personally to garner too much sympathy for the TSO in the video, regardless of "goading" or whatnot that occurs before the film starts.

The TSA reap what they sow. In dehumanizing their fellow man, they in turn are seen as bullies by many and are in danger themselves of being treated in the reprehensible fashion in which they treat others. It's almost as if by their very actions, the TSA are saying it's okay to treat others the way they do.

It's nice if you can hold your head high and not stoop to their level, but I won't lose any sleep tonight if someone is "snarky" in their comments during filming a TSO.
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Old Mar 11, 14, 10:12 am   #19
  
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Originally Posted by jkhuggins View Post
Without context, I'm really loathe to make much of a judgment here. I suspect that the passenger filming this goaded the TSO into that remark and that behavior. TSOs are supposed to be better than that, of course. But if the passenger filming this was acting like an idiot for ten minutes before this event, this response may actually be quite admirable.

In short ... this video is so short that it's a Rorschach inkblot. People will see in it what they wish to see.
Too bad there aren't more videos on his page.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jkhuggins View Post
One of these days, I'll need empathy when I don't deserve it ... and I hope someone will have pity on me and extend it to me. I can certainly treat others the way I would hope to be treated.
Yeah, maybe someday I too will ignore the rules governing how I do my job and will need empathy so that people will excuse me rather than require me to do my job the way I'm supposed to.

Last edited by Carl Johnson; Mar 12, 14 at 5:02 am Reason: Removed a portion that made a point I subsequently made in another post
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Old Mar 11, 14, 12:28 pm   #20
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More detail and background here (will add to first post):

http://freeinfreedom.com/2014/03/11/...elling-public/
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Old Mar 11, 14, 12:30 pm   #21
  
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Originally Posted by chollie View Post
In the past, TSO over-reaction at the checkpoint has been justified, in part, because 'disruptive' pax are a distraction that can 'interfere with the screening process' and put everyone in danger (the excuse, IIRC, for going after the shirtless guy with the 4th amendment painted on his torso).

In the interests of safety, staying focused on the mission, TSOs need to realize that when they allow themselves to be distracted - by pax taking photos, their cellphone, conversations with their bros, hot female pax - they put themselves and everyone else at risk.

Ever see the guards at Buckingham Palace? Or our US military at attention? That's an exercise in not allowing one's self to be distracted.

When a TSO like this allows himself to be distracted, he's demonstrating that he's only human, I get that. But he's also behaving unprofessionally and potentially putting everyone at that checkpoint at risk. He's not only allowed himself to be distracted, by his very actions, he's distracting others.

'Sticks and stones'...they're professional folks and should behave accordingly. Their own training warns them of the dangers of one bad guy creating a distraction to enable another bad guy. Fortunately, it appears that this time no one was harmed.

It's a bit like having an OR nurse who freaks at the sight of blood. If you can't maintain professional behavior, perhaps you're in the wrong line of work.
I agree, although my assessment of the "risk" posed by innatentive TSOs is somewhat less than the risk of being struck by lightening twice on the same night (and yes, I saw the recent Facebook viral video of a guy getting struck by lightning twice in a 30 second period). Not impossible, just highly improbable.

On another note, some years back my nephew, about age 10 at the time, took a bad spill from his bike and went to the hospital. His upper lip had been peeled back by the road and he had a bunch of tears where it met the gums. The doctor numbed him up, but good, and proceded to clip out damaged tissue and stich together what was left.

Meanwhile, an LPN who worked in the ER was holding his head still for the doctor. But this LPN was so disturbed by what was happening that she squatted at the head of the bed so the wound was out of her sight. All of this while the boy's mother and stepfather watched, and so did I, all without blinking, crying, puking, or turning away.

I was, frankly, digusted with this LPN's behavior. If the boy's family could watch it, a professional ER nurse who had never seen him before and had less emotional attachment to him should have been able to watch it. If she got that upset at a fairly minor injury, she would have been completely useless when a car crash victim came in torn to shreds.

I just hope she got out of nursing and into something less upsetting, like maybe the food service or housekeeping industries.
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Old Mar 11, 14, 3:08 pm   #22
  
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Originally Posted by Silver Fox View Post
If you poke a stick at a lion.
Suggest going with "Stir a snake" or "wrestle with a pig".

"Lion" in this context strains credulity.
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Old Mar 11, 14, 8:31 pm   #23
  
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Originally Posted by FredAnderssen View Post
Forgive me if I don't shed a tear for the TSA. Here is an organization that sees fit to dehumanize travelers at every turn: from "moat dragons" to "barkers," from pat downs of one's "resistance" to private room molestations screenings, it's hard for me personally to garner too much sympathy for the TSO in the video, regardless of "goading" or whatnot that occurs before the film starts.

The TSA reap what they sow. In dehumanizing their fellow man, they in turn are seen as bullies by many and are in danger themselves of being treated in the reprehensible fashion in which they treat others. It's almost as if by their very actions, the TSA are saying it's okay to treat others the way they do.

It's nice if you can hold your head high and not stoop to their level, but I won't lose any sleep tonight if someone is "snarky" in their comments during filming a TSO.
Errr....I'm sure whatever fleeting moment of discomfort caused by TSA screening is outweighed by the fact there are more pressing concerns in our country. Sure, the TSA has overstepped its role several times in its history, but at least it is adapting and changing.
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Old Mar 11, 14, 11:01 pm   #24
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Originally Posted by WillCAD View Post
I agree, although my assessment of the "risk" posed by innatentive TSOs is somewhat less than the risk of being struck by lightening twice on the same night (and yes, I saw the recent Facebook viral video of a guy getting struck by lightning twice in a 30 second period). Not impossible, just highly improbable.

On another note, some years back my nephew, about age 10 at the time, took a bad spill from his bike and went to the hospital. His upper lip had been peeled back by the road and he had a bunch of tears where it met the gums. The doctor numbed him up, but good, and proceded to clip out damaged tissue and stich together what was left.

Meanwhile, an LPN who worked in the ER was holding his head still for the doctor. But this LPN was so disturbed by what was happening that she squatted at the head of the bed so the wound was out of her sight. All of this while the boy's mother and stepfather watched, and so did I, all without blinking, crying, puking, or turning away.

I was, frankly, digusted with this LPN's behavior. If the boy's family could watch it, a professional ER nurse who had never seen him before and had less emotional attachment to him should have been able to watch it. If she got that upset at a fairly minor injury, she would have been completely useless when a car crash victim came in torn to shreds.

I just hope she got out of nursing and into something less upsetting, like maybe the food service or housekeeping industries.
I'm pointing out that if TSA wants to accuse pax of putting the checkpoint at risk when their behavior is 'distracting', the the TSOs themselves should try harder not to allow themselves to be so easily distracted - let alone participating in distracting (for pax and fellow TSOs) behavior.

They're the ones who have pointed out the grave risk posed by a distraction at the checkpoint; I'm just taking them at their word and asking them to behave accordingly.

The LPN's behavior was completely unacceptable! It's fortunate that she was able to find a way to do what was required of her on that occasion, but she really needs to find another line of work. I hope the doctor follows up on this.

My niece (RN) was training a group of nurses in the hospital once. One of them kept playing with her cellphone. She announced that she had no intention of working in a hospital, ick, she fully intended to work in a doctor's office, so she didn't really need the hospital skills.

As my niece pointed out to her, even in a doctor's office, sometimes things go wrong and if you are the nurse on duty, you had better be able to keep your wits about you and do your job.
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Old Mar 11, 14, 11:10 pm   #25
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Originally Posted by NextTrip View Post
But, goading the TSO is acceptable? Oh, I see; anything to get the video!
The person goading the TSO is not on the job and claiming to be a trained security professional.
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Old Mar 12, 14, 4:47 am   #26
  
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Originally Posted by jkhuggins View Post
Note that, even in that terribly brief segment, it's not "just" filming. It's filming with an audio commentary. And it's the snarky sound of that commentary that suggests to me that this is the end of a much longer conversation: one that we really should hear in its entirety before rendering final judgment.
The commentary doesn't sound snarky to me. To me, it sounds like a narration.

Too bad we have no way to hear previous parts of this conversation (if any) or previous conversations:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5tyVZu3KRJ8

Quote:
Originally Posted by flyerhog View Post
Errr....I'm sure whatever fleeting moment of discomfort caused by TSA screening is outweighed by the fact there are more pressing concerns in our country. Sure, the TSA has overstepped its role several times in its history, but at least it is adapting and changing.
This is a meaningless argument. Look at this: I'm sure X is outweighed by the fact that there are more pressing concerns in our country. Anything can substitute for "X". This is just an argument that the speaker should be allowed to determine what others are and aren't entitled to be concerned about. "Overstepped its role," and "adapting and changing" are so general as to be meaningless.


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Originally Posted by javabytes View Post
The person goading the TSO is not on the job and claiming to be a trained security professional.
There's no indication that anyone was goading the clerk; that was speculation. It's too bad that there aren't more videos of interactions by this passenger. Like these:

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCtj...kZuuSSA/videos

And no videos showing background explaining the behavior recorded in the original video. Like this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k8qoVX3I_Ac

Too bad the passenger left so much room for speculation about his own behavior and motivations.

Last edited by Carl Johnson; Mar 12, 14 at 4:58 am
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Old Mar 12, 14, 10:56 am   #27
  
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Look, the OP's first posting only had the final 17-second video. No need to be snarky about those of us who weren't willing to do the extensive search to find all of the other videos from the same author. (Occasionally, I do have to spend time at my day job.)

So, following the links provided, I read the webpages describing the interactions on all of those other videos. I'll grant that the TSO (and many others) were wrong about the use of video at the checkpoint, and that the passenger was correct about asserting his rights to record at the checkpoint.

I'll also assert that the video creator seemed to be goading the particular TSO, by deliberately coming back to the same TSO over and over again to assert his legal rights. In that context, the TSO's reaction seems pretty subdued.

So ... yes, the videographer was right, and the TSO was wrong. Mea culpa. Now that the schadenfreude is over, what should we discuss next?
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Old Mar 12, 14, 11:50 am   #28
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What if the video creator films every time he or she uses a checkpoint and he or she uses the same checkpoint each week on the same date and sees the same agents week in and week out?

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Originally Posted by jkhuggins View Post

I'll also assert that the video creator seemed to be goading the particular TSO, by deliberately coming back to the same TSO over and over again to assert his legal rights. In that context, the TSO's reaction seems pretty subdued.
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Old Mar 12, 14, 12:05 pm   #29
  
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Originally Posted by chollie View Post
Ever see the guards at Buckingham Palace? Or our US military at attention? That's an exercise in not allowing one's self to be distracted.
Youtube is filled with videos of Buckingham Palace and the Honor Guards at Arlington reacting to being provoked and challenged..... and several of these videos show that it doesn't always end well for the person who did the provoking.

Last edited by RatherBeOnATrain; Mar 12, 14 at 12:54 pm Reason: typo
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Old Mar 12, 14, 1:14 pm   #30
  
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What if the video creator films every time he or she uses a checkpoint and he or she uses the same checkpoint each week on the same date and sees the same agents week in and week out?
He's within his rights to do so. And he's also within his rights to offer (IMHO) snarky commentary to the TSOs while he does it.

But I find it just a bit curious that he always encounters exactly the same TSO every time he enters that particular checkpoint. We've heard that TSOs rotate positions from time to time. Gee, why do we only see videos of this one TSO? Why is the videographer so interested in seeing that this one specific TSO learns how to tolerate his videotaping? Why aren't we seeing any videos of him with other TSOs ... presumably, there are a few TSOs who aren't giving him a hassle about this?

Again ... he's completely within his rights to do what he's doing. That doesn't make him a national hero.
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