Add'l "Security" for US-Bound Flights on US Carriers: Mechanics/Purposes?
#1
Original Poster
Join Date: May 2000
Location: Home: Arlington, VA; Home airports: IAD/DCA/BWI
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Posts: 4,095
Add'l "Security" for US-Bound Flights on US Carriers: Mechanics/Purposes?
Since 1991, for almost every flight on a US carrier departing a foreign airport, I, along with every other passenger on the flight, may have been subject to additional security measures, handled by a locally contracted security company ("LCSC"), distinctly different from the airport security company ("ASC,") and the airline's ground handling company ("GHC.")
At some airports prior to check-in:
* passenger flight itineraries and their passports were reviewed
* some basic, scripted security questions were asked, such purpose of visit, length of stay, who packed the bags, if the bags were in possession and control at all times, and if someone else approached them to carry something
* some odd, scripted questions were asked, such as if passengers have any items that could be used as a weapon or that look like a weapon or items that are electronics (in the 90s and early 2000s only)
* before being allowed to go to the check-in counter, the agent of the LCSC, seemed to have noted a list that passengers have completed being "interviewed." I've never seen these LCSC agents do any searches of checked baggage at the check-in area.
At some airports, during the boarding process,
* agents of LCSC do a manifest reconciliation by reviewing the passports and boarding documents
* agents of LCSC ask some basic questions, such as if they were asked to carry items for someone else or if they obtaining anything new since check-in.
* agents of LCSC (distinctly different from the ones doing the questioning) conduct physical pat-downs and manual searches of carry-on items
So the questions I have are:
* Is it correct that these additional security procedures were actually instituted and requested by the airlines themselves after the Pan Am flight 103 Lockerbie bombing?
* Who are the people that work for the LCSC? These look like people distinctly different from the ASC and are locals of the originating country. In the 90s, I remember the company "ICTS" doing it at many different airports.
* Does the LCSC do anything other than performing additional security for US carriers? Certainly the LCSC must do something else besides conducting additional security checks of passengers traveling on US carriers. There isn't enough volume to keep the LCSC profitable on just business like this.
* What kind of action or influence can the LCSC have in the additional screening of passengers? I haven't seen agents of LCSC physically search anyone's check-in baggage at check-in. The agents of LCSC who ask questions seem very robotic, as if they're just going through routine motions. But perhaps, they can suddenly change character if they have a list provided in advance of suspicious passengers and require real scrutiny? At boarding, when additional screenings are conducted, either everyone gets the same treatment or random people are selected. In the case of randomized screenings, agents of the LCSC doing the selecting don't have lists nor do they check the identities of those whom they are screening.
* What determines the additional level of security procedures? Some airports have nothing at all; some airports just ask questions at check-in; some airports ask questions at check-in and do manifest reconciliation at boarding; some airports ask questions at check-in, do manifest reconciliation while at boarding, and do manual re-screening of everyone or random passengers.
* Some flights of non-US-based carriers departing to US have additional screening at the gate for all passengers. Did the TSA really mandate this? The only place I've seen this was at JNB in 2012 and 2013 flying on SA. Unlike my interaction with agents of the LCSC working for DL in JNB in 2010, the agents of the LCSC working for SA seemed to be more obsessed about the size of liquid containers than looking for items that could threaten the safety of the aircraft. The agents of the LCSC doing the physical pat-downs also seemed indifferent, compared to those who were working for DL. Flying out of SYD in 2011 on VA, there was no additional gate screening.
* Are LCSCs hired because of trust issues with certain GHCs and ASCs by the US carriers?
i.e.
Questioning at check-in: The carrier doesn't trust the GHC in verifying the passengers' identities? Does the LCSC have a special watch list provided by the airlines or the US government?
Manifest reconciliation at boarding: The carrier wants to make sure that the GHC doesn't smuggle someone who doesn't have proper boarding credentials? The carrier wants to make sure that the GHC doesn't pretend to board a passenger and yet allows the pretend passenger's check-in baggage to be loaded? The carrier doesn't trust the GHC in verifying the passengers' identities, i.e. the carrier is afraid of a passenger switch-er-oo?
Physical pat-down and manual bag search at boarding: The carrier doesn't trust the ASC airport screening procedures for airport employees and passengers?
Here's what I can remember based on my past travels on US carriers:
1989 - BKK (Thailand): Handheld metal detector; bag search
1992-2008 - BKK (Thailand): Questions at check-in; questions/reconciliation at boarding; pat-down; bag search
1989 - MNL (Philippines): Bag search; don't remember anything whether or not I was patted-down or had a handheld metal detector waved around me
1991-1999 - MNL (Philippines): Questions at check-in; questions/reconciliation at boarding; pat-down; bag search
1991-2001 - NRT: Nothing
2002-2014 - NRT: Nothing, except for randomized pat-down and bag screening at the boarding gate
2010 - JNB: Questions at check-in; questions/reconciliation at boarding; pat-down; bag search
2011 - GCM (Cayman Islands): Nothing
2002 - YYZ (Canada): Nothing
2013 - FRA (Germany): Questions at check-in; questions at boarding
2001 - FRA (Germany): Questions at check-in; questions at boarding
1999 - LHR (United Kingdom): Questions at check-in; questions at boarding
2002 - LHR (United Kingdom): Questions at check-in; questions at boarding
2014 - SIN (Singapore): Questions at check-in
At some airports prior to check-in:
* passenger flight itineraries and their passports were reviewed
* some basic, scripted security questions were asked, such purpose of visit, length of stay, who packed the bags, if the bags were in possession and control at all times, and if someone else approached them to carry something
* some odd, scripted questions were asked, such as if passengers have any items that could be used as a weapon or that look like a weapon or items that are electronics (in the 90s and early 2000s only)
* before being allowed to go to the check-in counter, the agent of the LCSC, seemed to have noted a list that passengers have completed being "interviewed." I've never seen these LCSC agents do any searches of checked baggage at the check-in area.
At some airports, during the boarding process,
* agents of LCSC do a manifest reconciliation by reviewing the passports and boarding documents
* agents of LCSC ask some basic questions, such as if they were asked to carry items for someone else or if they obtaining anything new since check-in.
* agents of LCSC (distinctly different from the ones doing the questioning) conduct physical pat-downs and manual searches of carry-on items
So the questions I have are:
* Is it correct that these additional security procedures were actually instituted and requested by the airlines themselves after the Pan Am flight 103 Lockerbie bombing?
* Who are the people that work for the LCSC? These look like people distinctly different from the ASC and are locals of the originating country. In the 90s, I remember the company "ICTS" doing it at many different airports.
* Does the LCSC do anything other than performing additional security for US carriers? Certainly the LCSC must do something else besides conducting additional security checks of passengers traveling on US carriers. There isn't enough volume to keep the LCSC profitable on just business like this.
* What kind of action or influence can the LCSC have in the additional screening of passengers? I haven't seen agents of LCSC physically search anyone's check-in baggage at check-in. The agents of LCSC who ask questions seem very robotic, as if they're just going through routine motions. But perhaps, they can suddenly change character if they have a list provided in advance of suspicious passengers and require real scrutiny? At boarding, when additional screenings are conducted, either everyone gets the same treatment or random people are selected. In the case of randomized screenings, agents of the LCSC doing the selecting don't have lists nor do they check the identities of those whom they are screening.
* What determines the additional level of security procedures? Some airports have nothing at all; some airports just ask questions at check-in; some airports ask questions at check-in and do manifest reconciliation at boarding; some airports ask questions at check-in, do manifest reconciliation while at boarding, and do manual re-screening of everyone or random passengers.
* Some flights of non-US-based carriers departing to US have additional screening at the gate for all passengers. Did the TSA really mandate this? The only place I've seen this was at JNB in 2012 and 2013 flying on SA. Unlike my interaction with agents of the LCSC working for DL in JNB in 2010, the agents of the LCSC working for SA seemed to be more obsessed about the size of liquid containers than looking for items that could threaten the safety of the aircraft. The agents of the LCSC doing the physical pat-downs also seemed indifferent, compared to those who were working for DL. Flying out of SYD in 2011 on VA, there was no additional gate screening.
* Are LCSCs hired because of trust issues with certain GHCs and ASCs by the US carriers?
i.e.
Questioning at check-in: The carrier doesn't trust the GHC in verifying the passengers' identities? Does the LCSC have a special watch list provided by the airlines or the US government?
Manifest reconciliation at boarding: The carrier wants to make sure that the GHC doesn't smuggle someone who doesn't have proper boarding credentials? The carrier wants to make sure that the GHC doesn't pretend to board a passenger and yet allows the pretend passenger's check-in baggage to be loaded? The carrier doesn't trust the GHC in verifying the passengers' identities, i.e. the carrier is afraid of a passenger switch-er-oo?
Physical pat-down and manual bag search at boarding: The carrier doesn't trust the ASC airport screening procedures for airport employees and passengers?
Here's what I can remember based on my past travels on US carriers:
1989 - BKK (Thailand): Handheld metal detector; bag search
1992-2008 - BKK (Thailand): Questions at check-in; questions/reconciliation at boarding; pat-down; bag search
1989 - MNL (Philippines): Bag search; don't remember anything whether or not I was patted-down or had a handheld metal detector waved around me
1991-1999 - MNL (Philippines): Questions at check-in; questions/reconciliation at boarding; pat-down; bag search
1991-2001 - NRT: Nothing
2002-2014 - NRT: Nothing, except for randomized pat-down and bag screening at the boarding gate
2010 - JNB: Questions at check-in; questions/reconciliation at boarding; pat-down; bag search
2011 - GCM (Cayman Islands): Nothing
2002 - YYZ (Canada): Nothing
2013 - FRA (Germany): Questions at check-in; questions at boarding
2001 - FRA (Germany): Questions at check-in; questions at boarding
1999 - LHR (United Kingdom): Questions at check-in; questions at boarding
2002 - LHR (United Kingdom): Questions at check-in; questions at boarding
2014 - SIN (Singapore): Questions at check-in
Last edited by Wiirachay; Jan 9, 2014 at 9:39 pm
#2
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: AUS / DXB
Programs: BA Silver | AA LT Gold | EY Silver | Marriott LT Titanium
Posts: 1,838
I find this especially annoying at LHR, where the security agents ask all sorts of irrelevant questions. ("What do you do for a living? What does your family do?" etc.)
It is even more farcical when you consider than non-US carriers carry out no such screening (except as mandated by DHS, such as all UAE departing flights a few years ago). If you want to avoid such screening, simply fly BA or VS from LHR instead of AA or UA. Completely pointless.
It is even more farcical when you consider than non-US carriers carry out no such screening (except as mandated by DHS, such as all UAE departing flights a few years ago). If you want to avoid such screening, simply fly BA or VS from LHR instead of AA or UA. Completely pointless.
#3
Used to be 'FTcadence'
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: SAN
Posts: 432
TSA to Begin Inspecting US and Overseas Airliner Repair Shops
Late last week, the TSA announced its plans to inspect airport-based airplane repair stations with the goal of stopping potential sabotage and theft to US planes. This expansion of TSA powers finally satisfies a 10-year-old Congressional mandate issued due to fears of terrorism. 4,100 US-based repair shops and 700 foreign ones will be affected.
http://abcnews.go.com/Business/wireS...shops-21493602
http://abcnews.go.com/Business/wireS...shops-21493602
#7
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: The Sunshine State
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Posts: 11,370
#9
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: SYD (perenially), GVA (not in a long time)
Programs: QF PS, EK-Gold, Security Theatre Critic
Posts: 6,785
Originally Posted by ABC News
Besides inspections, TSA said it will monitor some stations by asking them questions over the phone or sending in paperwork to be audited.
Originally Posted by ABC News
Airlines used to do most of that work themselves, but over the past decade they have aimed to save money by shifting work to third-party facilities, many of them overseas.
Originally Posted by ABC News
TSA said the rule gives it the authority to inspect repair shops in the U.S. and abroad, although international inspections will only happen in consultation with that country's government.
Oh, wait, it doesn't say "permission", it only says "consultation". In my company, that means "we will tell you what we've already decided to do."
Originally Posted by ABC News
That has caused worries that repair shops will be tipped off about pending inspections.
Originally Posted by ABC News
Unions have been pushing for tighter regulation of overseas stations, where work is often performed by non-union workers.
#11
Moderator: Coupon Connection & S.P.A.M
Join Date: May 2000
Location: Louisville, KY
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Posts: 57,952
It's time to stop giving in to irrational fear. TSA should be abolished.
#13
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Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: where the chile is hot
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Posts: 41,668
Ha - the ABDOs are so good they don't even have to be AT the repair hangar:
I love all the (not so) subtle xenophobia in the article, too:
"Overseas" = "cheap" = "suspicious". Got it.
I mean, how DARE they ask permission before carrying out US gov't functions in another country?!?
Oh, wait, it doesn't say "permission", it only says "consultation". In my company, that means "we will tell you what we've already decided to do."
Yeah, those shifty foreign gov'ts - can't trust 'em for anything.
Yeah, how DARE those foreign countries allow companies to hire non-union workers!! It's downright UnAmerican!
I love all the (not so) subtle xenophobia in the article, too:
"Overseas" = "cheap" = "suspicious". Got it.
I mean, how DARE they ask permission before carrying out US gov't functions in another country?!?
Oh, wait, it doesn't say "permission", it only says "consultation". In my company, that means "we will tell you what we've already decided to do."
Yeah, those shifty foreign gov'ts - can't trust 'em for anything.
Yeah, how DARE those foreign countries allow companies to hire non-union workers!! It's downright UnAmerican!
Seriously? Does anyone really think TSA is going to send trained investigators overseas to actually go on the floor and verify what's going on? TSA will be able to tell actual airline parts from 'modified' ones, will be able to analyze and test the security at these installations (actual and on paper)?
Just an excuse for high-paid junkets.
#14
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: South Yorkshire, UK
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Posts: 2,364
I think you're all being unfair. Over the past ten years there has been a proven correlation between the TSA asking people their name before security, squeezing their testicles and making up rules and planes not falling out the skies.
This initiative will involve asking airline technicians their names, squeezing airplane components and making up rules, and I'm positive it will have a similar effect on the safety of the flying public...
[Footnote: I'm being sarcastic]
This initiative will involve asking airline technicians their names, squeezing airplane components and making up rules, and I'm positive it will have a similar effect on the safety of the flying public...
[Footnote: I'm being sarcastic]
Last edited by roberino; Jan 13, 2014 at 8:58 am Reason: Sarcasm sign
#15
Join Date: Jul 2007
Programs: QFF
Posts: 5,304
There is also a proven correlation between the rest of the world not asking people their name before security, squeezing their testicles and making up rules and planes not falling out the skies.