Danger at SEATAC
#17
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: The Sunshine State
Programs: Deltaworst Peon Level, TSA "Layer 21 Club", NW WP RIP
Posts: 11,370
Carl: In its existence, TSA has screened 7 BILLION passengers and found ZERO terrorists. And that is by searching and x-raying EVERY bag of EVERY passenger at the checkpoint. (Assume for the sake of argument they are perfect at screening. )
Two million passengers are flying today in the US. All searched by TSA with nothing allowed into the sterile area.
Take some TSOs and search 1 out of ten boarding an aircraft, or about 20 per flight. Do that for an hour at a time for five flights and 100 get gate searched. Do that four times a day at fifty major airports and 20,000 max can get gate searched in the USA every day. Out of two million, that is one of every 100 that can possibly get gate searched. On most days far far less. More like one out of 1000 or one out of 10,000.
If ten bad guys at random have contraband slipped to them in the sterile area, by gate searching 1% or less of the passengers the odds are the TSA might luck out and find one item a few time a month. On most days ALL the contraband will board the aircrafts undetected. Feel safer yet by seeing those gate searches?
Conclusion: Random gate searches are worthless as a real and effective safety measure. They are just make work and/or Security Theater.
TSA: Not understanding math and/or science since day one.
Two million passengers are flying today in the US. All searched by TSA with nothing allowed into the sterile area.
Take some TSOs and search 1 out of ten boarding an aircraft, or about 20 per flight. Do that for an hour at a time for five flights and 100 get gate searched. Do that four times a day at fifty major airports and 20,000 max can get gate searched in the USA every day. Out of two million, that is one of every 100 that can possibly get gate searched. On most days far far less. More like one out of 1000 or one out of 10,000.
If ten bad guys at random have contraband slipped to them in the sterile area, by gate searching 1% or less of the passengers the odds are the TSA might luck out and find one item a few time a month. On most days ALL the contraband will board the aircrafts undetected. Feel safer yet by seeing those gate searches?
Conclusion: Random gate searches are worthless as a real and effective safety measure. They are just make work and/or Security Theater.
TSA: Not understanding math and/or science since day one.
#18
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: DFW
Posts: 28,010
Carl: In its existence, TSA has screened 7 BILLION passengers and found ZERO terrorists. And that is by searching and x-raying EVERY bag of EVERY passenger at the checkpoint. (Assume for the sake of argument they are perfect at screening. )
Two million passengers are flying today in the US. All searched by TSA with nothing allowed into the sterile area.
Take some TSOs and search 1 out of ten boarding an aircraft, or about 20 per flight. Do that for an hour at a time for five flights and 100 get gate searched. Do that four times a day at fifty major airports and 20,000 max can get gate searched in the USA every day. Out of two million, that is one of every 100 that can possibly get gate searched. On most days far far less. More like one out of 1000 or one out of 10,000.
If ten bad guys at random have contraband slipped to them in the sterile area, by gate searching 1% or less of the passengers the odds are the TSA might luck out and find one item a few time a month. On most days ALL the contraband will board the aircrafts undetected. Feel safer yet by seeing those gate searches?
Conclusion: Random gate searches are worthless as a real and effective safety measure. They are just make work and/or Security Theater.
TSA: Not understanding math and/or science since day one.
Two million passengers are flying today in the US. All searched by TSA with nothing allowed into the sterile area.
Take some TSOs and search 1 out of ten boarding an aircraft, or about 20 per flight. Do that for an hour at a time for five flights and 100 get gate searched. Do that four times a day at fifty major airports and 20,000 max can get gate searched in the USA every day. Out of two million, that is one of every 100 that can possibly get gate searched. On most days far far less. More like one out of 1000 or one out of 10,000.
If ten bad guys at random have contraband slipped to them in the sterile area, by gate searching 1% or less of the passengers the odds are the TSA might luck out and find one item a few time a month. On most days ALL the contraband will board the aircrafts undetected. Feel safer yet by seeing those gate searches?
Conclusion: Random gate searches are worthless as a real and effective safety measure. They are just make work and/or Security Theater.
TSA: Not understanding math and/or science since day one.
At least TSA is consistent in this one area.
#19
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: CHA
Programs: PLA/AA - SLV/DL - GLD/HHONORS
Posts: 36
smoke and mirrors
Thank GOD for TSA.
When the TSA took away my unopened jar of Peanut Butter at LAX, I felt a immense sense of relief that my plane ride would be that much safer. I can only imagine what kind of havoc would have been unleashed had that jar of peanut butter made onto the plane.
When the TSA took away my unopened jar of Peanut Butter at LAX, I felt a immense sense of relief that my plane ride would be that much safer. I can only imagine what kind of havoc would have been unleashed had that jar of peanut butter made onto the plane.
#20
Original Poster
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: SEA
Programs: Delta TDK(or care)WIA, Hilton Diamond
Posts: 1,869
Thank GOD for TSA.
When the TSA took away my unopened jar of Peanut Butter at LAX, I felt a immense sense of relief that my plane ride would be that much safer. I can only imagine what kind of havoc would have been unleashed had that jar of peanut butter made onto the plane.
When the TSA took away my unopened jar of Peanut Butter at LAX, I felt a immense sense of relief that my plane ride would be that much safer. I can only imagine what kind of havoc would have been unleashed had that jar of peanut butter made onto the plane.
And people complain about the fact that the TSA only detects 30% of prohibited items. But there hasn't been a successful attack on an aircraft since September 11, right? So the 30% that they stop includes 100% of the items presented at the checkpoint with nefarious intent; the other 70% that are passed through make it on and off board without incident.
What I understand from some of the remarks above is that the gate checks are redundant and a pointless waste of time. Is that right? Well that's worth thinking about. No organization is perfect. But the TSA's role is so important that it should be as nearly perfect as possible, so that either the officers who are not doing their jobs at the checkpoint should be fired, or the officers running the gate checks should be thanked for their service and laid off as superfluous, and I'll bring that up if selected for a gate check. As a part of the 20th layer of security, it's my responsibility to help the TSA be as nearly perfect as possible.
The weight of the TSA's responsibility shows in every aspect of the organization, down to the physique of many of the officers. And we passengers share the responsibility of protecting the country, and need to point out deficiencies or irregularities in the TSA or any particular operation of the TSA. If we see something, we should say something.
#22
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Between AUS, EWR, and YTO In a little twisty maze of airline seats, all alike...
Programs: CO, NW, & UA forum moderator emeritus
Posts: 35,339
#23
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: MSP
Programs: Fallen Plats, ex-WN CP, DYKWIW; still a Hilton Diamond & Club Cholula™ R.I.P. Super Plats
Posts: 25,415
.....
Last edited by MikeMpls; Nov 24, 2013 at 10:02 pm Reason: removing all my recent TS/S content since any effort here seems to be unappreciated
#24
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: OKC
Programs: IHG Spire, National Exec, AA Plat
Posts: 2,267
The very few times that I've been selected for a gate recheck, I've simply told them "I will comply with your search only after you admit that you are doing it because you failed to do it correctly the first time at the checkpoint." They're usually speechless at that point and I just walk off.
#25
Suspended
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 3,728
#26
Suspended
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: CPH
Programs: Delta SM
Posts: 497
Gate Checks are an admission of failure to secure the sterile area of the airport. There are a few vectors that I can think of (others with more knowledge of these matters may add or subtract from them as need be):
Normal security lines, entrances for airport personnel, entrances for flight crew.
If the normal security lines are not being attended to properly, it seems to me that the TSA should concentrate its efforts there, rather than as a last ditch effort to (randomly) catch someone who happened to smuggle something through the normal security line. Is the person caught at the gate working with someone at the x-ray machine? Then that's where you should place extra personnel, or more importantly, get rid of those bad apples who are working with terrorists to smuggle weapons on board airplanes. That's what they're checking for, isn't it?
If the entrances for airport personnel, flight crews, delivery drivers etc. are not being screened, then place your TSA agents there.
Stop punishing the traveling public for the shortcomings in your system.
Normal security lines, entrances for airport personnel, entrances for flight crew.
If the normal security lines are not being attended to properly, it seems to me that the TSA should concentrate its efforts there, rather than as a last ditch effort to (randomly) catch someone who happened to smuggle something through the normal security line. Is the person caught at the gate working with someone at the x-ray machine? Then that's where you should place extra personnel, or more importantly, get rid of those bad apples who are working with terrorists to smuggle weapons on board airplanes. That's what they're checking for, isn't it?
If the entrances for airport personnel, flight crews, delivery drivers etc. are not being screened, then place your TSA agents there.
Stop punishing the traveling public for the shortcomings in your system.