Xyzzy

Argentina charges a 'reciprocity' fee and it is made quite clear that the fee is because the US/Canada/Australia charge similar fees to Argentine citizens. The fee can no lnger be paid upon arrival.

AlreadyThere

I don't mind the money, I can agree that that qualifies as reciprocity (and you can pay Argentina's online). With Brazil, you can do nothing without getting your passport physically to a consulate somewhere, having it spend time there, and then getting it back. They're not just after the money, they want to make a point with "inconveniente máximo".

They are the ONLY COUNTRY in South America that does this (other than Suriname).

WilcoRoger

Do Brazilians need a visa to visit the US? If they do, then the described procedure for US citizens to visit Brazil is indeed reciprocity.

AlreadyThere

Well, not really. The US is trying to solve a specific problem that is almost certainly not a problem for Brazil, namely citizens of the other country intending to overstay a visa-free period, possibly to work. It's why the US doesn't require a visa for citizens of W Europe, Singapore, Japan etc. but does require one for E Europe, most of S America, etc. even though those places don't require visas for US citizens.

So it's kind of a false reciprocity.

GUWonder

Yes. Brazilians in the main need a US visa prior to traveling to the US if wanting to be lawfully admitted to the US.

Sjoerd

Perhaps it is perceived problem, and not a real one? Brazilians do not need a visa for Schengen, and still we do not have a big problem with Brazilians working or staying illegally in Western Europe.

AlreadyThere

Possibly, although maybe the US is easier to get to and blend into than W Europe. But you're right, it sure seems (anecdotally) as if Brazil, Argentina and Chile would pose less of a problem with this than the rest of S America.

So which is it easier to get in Amsterdam these days, feijoada or rijsttafel?

GUWonder

My flights between Brazil and Europe are cheaper than my flights between Brazil and the US. And my flights between Brazil and Europe via the US have been cheaper than even my US-Europe trips. Go figure.

I have Brazilian friends in the EU; they "blend into Western Europe" just as well as they "blend into the US".

The major difference is that a lot of rather basic services are barely accessible if you are an undocumented resident in some parts of Europe. In violation of law sometimes, even so-called "liberal" Sweden had pretty much made it difficult or impossible for children to attend primary school or to get basic health check-ups if the parent(s) and child weren't all registered with the government as lawfully-present/-admitted residents. In some case, this led to rather ridiculous situations where a child was a citizen of no country and living only in Sweden but attending school or getting a basic health check-up would result in the child and/or parents ending up fenced into camps of some sort. This was sort of fixed within the past year or two, but it may not have been completely fixed given that some municipalities' authorities may be rather slow learners or refuseniks. The way to reach that kind of "protected" system is to create a Big Brother-worthy population register of everyone and everything in the country in a way that is so very anti-American. Oh wait, we're getting there with the use of the SSN and the ACA "tax"/purchase-mandate.

UAPremExecflyer

Israel (full strip search )
Iraq
Afghanistan
Indonesia (at the time of East/West Timor independence business)
Lebanon (once recently had a real going-over because I had a passport full of visa stamps from places like Iraq, Afghanistan etc) Other than that has been fine.

AlreadyThere

Israel -- depends on who you are (thorough profiling, which I believe is justified in their case)
Indonesia -- no problem these days, although I used to be regularly asked for a $50 bribe for entry with an existing visa (which I politely refused to pay), until they instituted VoA
Afghanistan -- no problem, but then I was there in 2005 before things got bad again
Lebanon -- at the Syrian land border maybe, but not at BEY (before the Syrian "troubles")
Iraq -- no problem in friendly Kurdistan; I've never been to the rest; what do they do to you on entry at Baghdad airport?

WilcoRoger

Not at all false. Brazil seem to apply the same rules toward US citizens as the US applies towards Brazilian citizens. It's just not nice to be on the receiving end of the same rules, which might be a novel experience to US travellers.

As you say, some countries do provide unilateral visa-waiver travel to US citizens, for which said travellers should be grateful.

GUWonder

The grateful party should be the receiving state and its residents, as the hosting nation benefits from increased export revenue and higher earnings that are a direct result of foreign visitors.

AlreadyThere

I wholeheartedly disagree. Countries should have a reason for requiring visas other than just a show of government authority. Reasons can be security or economic related. This is not just a US thing. It's for that reason that Schengen visas are required for many countries that don't themselves require visas for w Europeans. It's not a symmetric situation.

Sjoerd

"I have been cursed at a Chinese border. In Dubai, my passport was studied by three veiled women for over an hour and my suitcase completely dismembered. In the Philippines I had to bribe someone in order to get my visa extended for a few days. Borders, they can be tough, especially in countries known for corruption."

But never, ever, will I return to the United States of America.

AlreadyThere

Yeesh, nasty experience. And I definitely avoided Canada for awhile after the multi-hour Ottawa airport experience described in my post #16 above (they didn't even have the flimsy excuse of a Yemen stamp to point to). I thought, "If they really dislike me coming that much, there are plenty of other places to go."

But after a few years, I decided the country was too great and there was too much to explore up there for the actions of a couple of provincial-outlook a**holes to discourage me from looking around. So I got over it, and am glad I did.