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-   -   Losing Patience with TSA (https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/checkpoints-borders-policy-debate/1501416-losing-patience-tsa.html)

KDS Sep 9, 2013 7:18 am

Losing Patience with TSA
 
An interesting article this morning that I'd hope would lead to some sanity in Congress:

http://www.usatoday.com/story/travel...nduct/2783055/

jkhuggins Sep 9, 2013 8:40 am


Originally Posted by KDS (Post 21412808)
sanity in Congress

Well, there's your first problem :)

Sorry, but I'm unimpressed by the article. "One last chance to improve" only works if there's clearly defined criteria for improvement ... and the article fails to provide that. Even the one solution mentioned --- privatization --- won't do a whole lot, because private screeners would still have to use WBI and perform full-body patdowns and enforce the 100ml fluid rule and so on.

KDS Sep 9, 2013 8:51 am


Originally Posted by jkhuggins (Post 21413261)
Well, there's your first problem :)

Sorry, but I'm unimpressed by the article. "One last chance to improve" only works if there's clearly defined criteria for improvement ... and the article fails to provide that. Even the one solution mentioned --- privatization --- won't do a whole lot, because private screeners would still have to use WBI and perform full-body patdowns and enforce the 100ml fluid rule and so on.

Understanding that it's just an article, there was one suggestion that I liked:
The TSA is still developing a final rule, required by a U.S. Court of Appeals, on the use of its controversial full-body scanners. According to a survey of public comments on a government regulations website, most Americans favor a return to the tried-and-true magnetometers and want the TSA to stop using pat-downs and full-body scanners. Bowing to their wishes would be a good start.
Although I don't expect TSA or Congress or President to actually accept and implement this suggestion, it would be a good thing if they did.

jkhuggins Sep 9, 2013 7:18 pm


Originally Posted by KDS (Post 21413319)
Understanding that it's just an article, there was one suggestion that I liked:
The TSA is still developing a final rule, required by a U.S. Court of Appeals, on the use of its controversial full-body scanners. According to a survey of public comments on a government regulations website, most Americans favor a return to the tried-and-true magnetometers and want the TSA to stop using pat-downs and full-body scanners. Bowing to their wishes would be a good start.
Although I don't expect TSA or Congress or President to actually accept and implement this suggestion, it would be a good thing if they did.

But what does "a good start" mean?

See, TSA would counter that it is, in fact, returning to WTMD-only screening --- through the Pre-Check program. Of course, the fact that Pre-Check is only open to elites or those willing to pay for it through Global Entry is lost in that argument.

MIT_SBM Sep 9, 2013 7:26 pm


Originally Posted by jkhuggins (Post 21416721)
But what does "a good start" mean?

See, TSA would counter that it is, in fact, returning to WTMD-only screening --- through the Pre-Check program. Of course, the fact that Pre-Check is only open to elites or those willing to pay for it through Global Entry is lost in that argument.

Don't worry, Pre-Check will become all but required along with the associated fees. Slowly but surely the program will be expanded to cover all US airports. Subsequent to that there will be changes that will make not participating in Pre-Check [or whatever they decide to call it] the choice of last resort.

DeafBlonde Sep 9, 2013 8:49 pm


Originally Posted by MIT_SBM (Post 21416758)
Don't worry, Pre-Check will become all but required along with the associated fees. Slowly but surely the program will be expanded to cover all US airports. Subsequent to that there will be changes that will make not participating in Pre-Check [or whatever they decide to call it] the choice of last resort.

Bolding Mine: Knowing this present administration, not participating in Pre-Check might eventually garder a fine...er...penalty...er...tax. Yea, that's it, a tax!:rolleyes:

MIT_SBM Sep 9, 2013 9:51 pm


Originally Posted by DeafBlonde (Post 21417105)
Bolding Mine: Knowing this present administration, not participating in Pre-Check might eventually garder a fine...er...penalty...er...tax. Yea, that's it, a tax!:rolleyes:

I don't think that it has anything to do with the current Administration but rather more with:
  1. The usual scope creep of "safety" programs. Remember at one time seatbelts [in cars] were available but not talked about much. Then there was encouragement/peer pressure to use them. Now in many places it is the law to use them or be fined.
  2. The usual "power grab" by elected officials [from any party and of any administration] to control more of the plebian lifestyle while exempting themselves.
  3. The vocal Anything for Safety group(s) will call for it because, "If you have nothing to hide ....!"

Loren Pechtel Sep 9, 2013 10:20 pm

We need to bring back Senator McCarthy--we have some real Unamerican activities for him to go after!

RadioGirl Sep 10, 2013 2:00 am


Originally Posted by MIT_SBM (Post 21416758)
Don't worry, Pre-Check will become all but required along with the associated fees. Slowly but surely the program will be expanded to cover all US airports. Subsequent to that there will be changes that will make not participating in Pre-Check [or whatever they decide to call it] the choice of last resort.

Except for those who are not US citizens and/or residents. There's no sign of opening Pre-Check to "foreigners". And no reason, really, why a non-US citizen going on a single vacation or business trip to the US should want to (or have to) pay fees for Pre-Check for one trip.

ND Sol Sep 10, 2013 6:20 am


Originally Posted by MIT_SBM (Post 21417348)
  1. The usual scope creep of "safety" programs. Remember at one time seatbelts [in cars] were available but not talked about much. Then there was encouragement/peer pressure to use them. Now in many places it is the law to use them or be fined.

I recall when the seat belt law was passed in Texas and we were "promised" that no one would be stopped just for a seat belt infraction; a ticket would be issued only in conjunction with a stop for another matter. Didn't take too long for that promise to go by the wayside.

BubbaLoop Sep 10, 2013 6:51 am


Originally Posted by RadioGirl (Post 21418208)
Except for those who are not US citizens and/or residents. There's no sign of opening Pre-Check to "foreigners". And no reason, really, why a non-US citizen going on a single vacation or business trip to the US should want to (or have to) pay fees for Pre-Check for one trip.

Thank you Radiogirl for once again pointing out how this program makes us foreigners become de facto second-class travelers, excluding us from even the choice of having a reasonable security experience for an exorbitant fee.

mikeef Sep 10, 2013 1:01 pm


But today, just a few days before the 9/11 anniversary, is not the time to talk about the end of the TSA. This is the moment to take account of the failings of one of America's least-loved agencies, and to say: Our patience has its limits; it's almost up.
Really? Not a good time? Seems to me that this is the best time to talk about the dissolution of the TSA (not that there's ever a bad time). It will make for an excellent discussion on the value of our Constitutional liberties in the face of perceived danger.

Mike

MAMOHT Sep 10, 2013 1:39 pm

So the choices will be: NOS, patdown or a background check without consent.
And all that is just because a person has decided to move somewhere on a plane? I really do not see how the new system is better. If anything, it is actually worse. I'd rather receive a patdown then have those people to get background check on me every time I travel.

rwmiller56 Sep 11, 2013 10:30 am

The article was written by Chris Elliott, so what do you expect?

Fredd Sep 11, 2013 11:04 am


Originally Posted by rwmiller56 (Post 21426422)
The article was written by Chris Elliott, so what do you expect?

FWIW I like what he writes in this column, and I like seeing that critical viewpoint reach whatever audience USA Today reaches.


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