Logic
 

Can anyone explain this logic:

Flying back to the K from Montego Bay to the UK via Miami and they pull my 13 year old daughter for SSSS while boarding, so I say ok I'll wait here with my 10 year old daughter at which point I'm told you can't stay here it's a sterile area - i.e. the bit before the jet bridge where everyone walks through to board! A total and utter joke!

On the plus side, both ways through Miami have been smooth and easy through both immigration and security. Tonight at security at 'E' gates I was asked how many with you, I said, myself and my 2 daughters and we weren't required to go through the microwave scanner whilst everyone else had to. Seems to be absolutely no coherence at all!!

TSA's official explanation for such inconsistencies is "unpredictable screening".

Everyone else's explanation for such inconsistencies ... well, let's just say it wouldn't make it past the FlyerTalk language filters ...

Personally, I don't understand the "logic" of pulling a 13yo girl, who is traveling with her mother and 10yo sister, out of line for any sort of additional screening at the gate.

What kind of screening did she get? Bag check? Questioning? ID check? Pat-down?

Separating a minor from a parent seems problematic. Isn't doing so against TSA policy?

I think the cut-off age is 12. Any "child" older than that is "fare game." :rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

She had a pat down, handbag searched and was swabbed for god knows what.

Yes she's 13 and was confused about what was happening and why which in my view was perfectly understandable, however there was absolutely no empathy from the woman dealing with her. My daughter felt very uncomfortable whilst it was going on in full view of everyone

Anyonoe who goes through this egregious violation of their civil rights will be, at the very least, uncomfortable. However, do not ever let the discomfort turn into embarassment, as though you (or she) had done something wrong; this embarassment can lead to requesting private screening, which radically increases the chances for abuse and deviation from the SOP.

Instead, teach her to turn that discomfort into outrage at what is, in point of fact, an outrageous personal violation. Stay calm and never lose your temper, never raise your voice, but never become embarassed. In this situation, your daughter was a victim; she had absolutely no reason to be embarassed and every reason to be angry.

"Full view of everyone" is absolutely vital to prevent further, worse, abuses by these uniformed bullies.

At what airport did this happen? Also SSSS is a boarding pass designation and it is not to be applied in that instance.

Logic? You expect logic from a group who have not read a book since high school? My research here and other places indicates that TSA makes up its own rules according to it's own whim at its own convenience. The SSSS designation happens without rhyme or reason, and there is nothing you can do about it except be victimized by it. Just be grateful that your daughter was not maimed, bloodied and permanently scarred as I was. However, write to the Miami Congressional Representatives (Claude Pepper, Ileana Ros-Lehtinen, Patrick Murphy in the House and Senators Bill Nelson and Marcus Rubio, Senate) the TSA, and especially Senator Rand Paul of Kentucky. They will open (at least) a congressional inquiry into TSA misdoing there, and that will make people there at least aware of what is going on.

The most critical thing in my research is that TSA is not only clever, but motivated to keep their upper echelons from knowing what is going on under their watch. It only makes sense. When the lower echelons violate their own policy, it makes a bad mark on their own performance review which in turn affects their own promotions and pay raises etc. It is absolutely logical: No one can fix something if they don't know it's broken! And unless you rase _ _ _ _, the people with the power to do something don't know that something is wrong.

According to what I have researched, TSA may not separate a MINOR child from his/her parent. Period. End of discussion. If they said that you could not be with your 13 year old daughter then they are in violation and you need to raise _ _ _ _ about it. The difference between the 12 and 13 is in the invasiveness of the "enhanced pat down" also known as sexual assault every where in the USA except TSA. Also inquire as to the filing of criminal charges against them for kidnapping your child and holding her against your wishes and away from your protection. You won't get anywhere with it, but it will cost them money and take their time, and somehow get into their database. Again - the impossible - if enough people raise enough _ _ _ _ about their mistreatment of us, the greater likelihood of someone in Congress getting the message that we're not going to take their abuse of power any more.

Their only mission is to search for weapons, explosives, and incendiaries, and if that has been exceeded by their actions - according to the narrative that you gave, then you have cause. Demand the name and contact number of the Federal Securities Director at that airport (and send me a copy because I am doing my best to compile a data base for that.) COMPLAIN! COMPLAIN! COMPLAIN! Don't sit still and let these bullies continue not to abide their own operations manual. Once you get the name of the FSD at that airport, the form for his/her e-mail is Firstname . Lastname @ TSA . DHS. Gov. It is likely is that a paper letter will get more attention than an e-mail, but expect them to give you the wrong address at least 3 or 4 times, and don't send it to the airport because the airport will simply return it as undeliverable. Still, an e-mail will give you a record in your out-box of having contacted them. Also write about it to the TSA ombudsman.

We need a few million more people complaining loud and long and clear about TSA's school-yard-bully attitude and intimidation and endlessly exceeding their authority, terrorizing little kids and turning our travel experiences into a travel nightmare. Your help would be truly appreciated by everyone who flies.

> We need a few million more people complaining loud and long and clear

Won't get anywhere. This tactic is outdated. You need to organize a flying boycott to hurt *companies*. Companies own Congress so the only way to get Congress do anything is to hurt the airlines.

You could try to contact Claude Pepper, but you'll need a Ouija board - he died in 1989.

I wouldn't expect anything from Rubio. I e-mailed him about national security issues and got a response to the flavor of, "I'm on an intelligence committee, I know the top-secret details, and, trust me, the government is providing a valuable service."

Oops! But his name is still on the records I researched....

Over the years, I have sent written complaints to the TSA at the address given at the time on their website. (I don't think they list a street address any longer.) Each one came back marked either "undeliverable as addressed" or "no such address."

After 9-11, I was tripped up with the SSSS on my boarding passes several times but I haven't seen one in a few years. In the past, it was just extra degree of reviewing my documents and opening up my luggage for them to review.

But today, they don't even check your boarding passes after you walk through the metal detectors so not sure when TSA would check your boarding pass again.

Sounds like the original OP had a secondary check after boarding by TSA as this was international flight to UK. Not sure why they would swab her or do the patdown for a 13 year old, just sounds weird. Perhaps her name got caught in database but doesn't explain why the inward bound was a non-issue.

The fact that he's dead probably doesn't stop him from voting in Miami. ;)

Expecting to encounter logic when dealing with the TSA was your first mistake.

It sounds like the OP had the problem at Montego Bay Jamaca (Non USA). While this sounds like it should not have happened, it appears like the USA TSA had nothing to do with it. While I am no fan of the TSA, they should not be blamed for something they did not do. Conversely, when they do screw up (which they do quite often), it should be reported to all chains of command.



DD

Dead people in Chicago vote - what have you got against the dead? If they can vote why shouldn't they hold public office? It's not like they need to really do anything like vote or show up.

The only address I have been able to come up with is

Transportation Security Administration
601 South 12th Street TSA-1
Arlington, VA 20598

I have raised _ _ _ _ about not getting correct addresses. If you go through your congressional rep - you might get a name in which case it's FirstName . LastName @ TSA . DHS . GOV. I am absolutely certain that they ignore their e-mails. I have sent many to Kimberley Siro of SMF and all of them have been ignored in spite of the horror story I endured - including needing additional surgery at my destination in Seattle.

One thing I have noticed is that fewer people are complaining about SMF, and I don't know why people are not screaming about that horrible TSA spot.

That's the address I used and every single piece of correspondence was returned to me.

You can try using the 601 address with a specific name of someone located at headquarters, take the "TSA - 1" out of the address and simply put it Attn:joe employee. You may even be able to use something like "Attn: Customer Feedback" as a generic if you do not have a specific name to send it to. That 601 address is the one used for FOIA requests as well.

Wouldn't it be possible for TSA to just update the webpage with comprehensive and accurate contact info?

One of the problems with deliberately making it hard to contact someone at TSA (FSD, TSA snail-mail address, etc) is that if (heaven forbid) someone ever does have reliable critical information about something bad, he/she will find it virtually impossible to get the information to someone at TSA.

In ordinary matters, at least I can call 9-11 and stand a reasonable chance of getting someone to look into a situation. I personally wouldn't have a clue who to call/email/write if it was suspicion or knowledge of a plot involving the airport.

I will send a request up them make the snail mail address and other contacts more apparent, as not everyone uses email and electronic contact points. I understand your frustration, I was unable to find a feedback address while perusing with the exception of the FOIA contact. Of course, as soon as I say that, I just typed TSA Address into Google and came up with this one:

Contact Us | Transportation Security Administration
www.tsa.gov/contact-us‎
Jun 5, 2013 - The TSA Contact Center is here to help travelers prepare for upcoming flight. Whatever your question about traveling through TSA security, ...
2 Google reviews · Write a review
601 12th St S Arlington, VA 22202
(866) 289-9673


If you click on the link, it doesn't have the address on the actual page, but it is included in the link bio. I will send info up asking for them to add a snail mail page with frequently used departments (Feedback, FOIA, Customer Service, etc). I am not certain what will necessarily come of it, but I will send it up.

Thanks.

Interesting that the address you googled is slightly different (including a different zip code) from the one given above (that doesn't work).

Perhaps TSA's assumption is that the only input people want to offer is negative. That's too bad, because it assumes that 'the actions of a few' disgruntled pax represents everyone.

It also assumes that 1) no worthwhile suggestions for improvement ever come from the public and 2) everyone is savvy about the best way to 'say (report) something' if they 'see something'. As I noted above, worst possible case in a local situation, I assume 911 can steer me in the right direction. I wouldn't know where to go to be sure that any important tip I might have would get proper attention from TSA.

Note: I'm not necessarily referring to pax here. There were probably non-fliers who knew that BDO Minetta Walters was abusing her position and allowing drug couriers to smuggle contraband past security. They would have had a heck of a time finding an anonymous way to notify the FSD or TSA. Heck, so would I.

Thanks for the partial memory jog - I now recall finding some interesting information about ZIP codes for the TSA. I amend my first post on this to say I believe I sent mail to both ZIP codes - and it still all came back.


Searching today bring this:

"To reach the Secretary:

The Honorable Janet Napolitano
Secretary of Homeland Security
Washington, D.C. 20528"

http://www.dhs.gov/dhs-mailing-address

And this:

DHS National Capital Region Zip Codes

Component DC Zip Codes Virginia Zip Codes Maryland Zip Codes

TSA 20528 20598 20588

http://www.dhs.gov/dhs-mailing-address

And finally, drum roll, please, this:

https://www.federalregister.gov/arti...amendment#h-12

The 22202 ZIP is still relevant to other government entities, but just not DHS/TSA because they are afraid of us.

??? So the zip code on the TSA website link gsoltso provided has been invalid since 2008?

I found that to be confusing also. The ZIP code hasn't been good since 2008 yet it wasn't until March of 2012 that Pistole signed the "technical amendment."

Just another example of TSA inefficiency.

It seems they're just trying (as usual) t:rolleyes: remain unpredictable...

I will not venture to speak for HQs reasoning on the way things are set up on the site, however, it could be something as simple as tech orientation. With the current electronic capabilities, they may simply have gotten away from snail mail as a matter of habit instead of a distinct attempt to keep folks from communicating. I have not seen an active discouragement of feedback from passengers - but I work at a smaller airport, so that may be the reason for that.

I think that reporting something anonymously is something that we should provide for the public, some of the most constructive feedback comes when there is no publicity involved with the person providing the feedback. There are electronic ways to provide anon feedback, but it seems that the snail mail route may have been overlooked or underestimated - of course, I could be completely wrong about that!

It appears that it is a distinct possibility based on the information posted above.:confused:

I find it confusing as well. :(

The web site is out of date.

Who would have guessed that?

I would suggest incompetency.

And how is it that you have come across with such a sweeping stereotype?
What research would that be? How objective was it?
. There is a known profile and factors that lead to this designation. .TSA officers salary is frozen and has been for years.

. There is no such thing as an "enhanced pat down" . Lets see, so if TSA is tax funded, whose money is being used for your self admitted excercise in futility?
.I dont believe that there are even 1 million disparagers out there.

(bolding mine)

Based on comments I've seen on this forum and others from TSOs, I would suggest that perhaps it isn't just pax who might want the ability to report something anonymously without fear of retaliation.

An airport worker who has to pass through the checkpoint every day might hesitate to report something as 'minor' as TSOs clowning or using inappropriate language instead of being focused on the job. I have also read complaints by TSOs that when they reported problems, they were sometimes retaliated against by their own management.

Who cares what the source is if the problem checks out? I understand the argument about needing 'contact' info (apparently, on theft reports, this even includes gender and age) to verify details, etc. At the same time, I understand the very real fear of any complainant or 'informer' or 'whistle blower'.

From your very own Blogger Bob:
From the TSA website:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transpo...ing_procedures

If you think that fewer than a million TSA "disparagers" out there, then I have either a bridge or ocean front property in Arizona to offer to you.

Anonymous feedback is a double edged sword, but it still should be accepted and used when possible. Some anon complaints are sour grapes, some are valid complaints that need to be addressed - regardless of the veracity of the complaints, there should be a process where anyone can submit feedback to further the conversation in a myriad of ways. Employees should be able to report violations of protocol, lack of professionalism, and other "bad" stuff they see, as well as things like extreme professionalism, excellence in following protocols and going above and beyond the required. It is an essential part of the process, listening - without it, we may as well bash our heads against a wall because nothing will change in a meaningful way. I have been lucky enough to not be in a position where I have seen something egregious enough to warrant more than a discussion with one of my co-workers, but I am also lucky enough that if I were to see something like that, I would be able to report it properly without fear of retaliation. According to what I have seen in the press and blogosphere, not all TSA employees feel that way, and that is sad and counter-productive for the organization as a whole (even if there is not active retaliation, the perception of it has a chilling effect).

Then why do TSA screeners keep asking us to say our name if they can read?


So TSA is profiling?

Tell us the names for all pat downs methods used by TSA.


I don't either, there are many times that number of disparagers.