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-   Checkpoints and Borders Policy Debate (https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/checkpoints-borders-policy-debate-687/)
-   -   TSA eyes 'Randomizers' to sort security lines (https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/checkpoints-borders-policy-debate/1484152-tsa-eyes-randomizers-sort-security-lines.html)

usafwso Jul 12, 2013 12:28 am

Yet ANOTHER money grab by the TSA and it's security industrial complex vendors!

GUWonder Jul 12, 2013 4:33 am


Originally Posted by usafwso (Post 21083158)
Yet ANOTHER money grab by the TSA and it's security industrial complex vendors!

The security-industrial-Congressional complex (to sort of borrow from Sen. McCain), with a dash of Executive to the revolving door between the public and private sectors.


Originally Posted by FliesWay2Much (Post 21081943)
I thought about this, too. The TSA is spending a lot of our money preventing us from doing SDOO's. But, there are only a small subset of us who are actually doing that anymore, by the time you eliminate those who have bought into the PreCheck extortion.

But, this RFI also acknowledges that the wTMDs are here to stay because the TSA can't handle the amount of passengers during rush hours all going through the PornoScopes.

The joke is on us for allow this to persist and for allowing our elected officials to allow this to persist.


Indeed.

This will be used to increase the number of people who end up with PreCheck LLL screening outcomes. Underutilization of PreCheck lanes seems to be a concern of some sort.

GUWonder Jul 12, 2013 4:37 am


Originally Posted by Ysitincoach (Post 21082642)
Correct, though I'm fairly certain the Mexican system is driven by the x-ray screener of the bags, and the red light merely indicates that you've been selected by their customs agent to have a hand search.

I have had the red-light go off at MEX where customs did no hand search of my bags. They did get an x-ray examination.

Wally Bird Jul 12, 2013 6:16 am

A tacit admission that the SPOT program is no more effective than simple randomizing?

Didn't some people offer such an opinion here a long, long time ago? ;)

Schmurrr Jul 12, 2013 8:58 am

Many problems with this...

  • Highly questionable value given (a) effective lack of terrorists, (b) the other "layers" of TSA security, (c) the numerous loopholes that allow people to bypass the NOSs anyway, and (d) the millions of sheep who don't care about privacy and Constitutional rights
  • Doesn't address SDOO through alternative gate selection
  • Not a priority (e.g., not as important as scanning airport employees and vendors and not as important as scanning cargo)
  • Potential to add yet more delay and confusion at checkpoints
  • Excessive expenditure of public funds (for equipment procurement, additional staff, training, maintenance, etc.)
  • Confirms that the current TSA process is flawed (which we already knew but TSA apparently just figured out, despite years of NOS infestation in our airports)
  • Ignores relevant public comments on NOS (e.g., designed to support NOSs when most of the comments clearly indicate NOSs are offensive)

Where is the cost-benefit analysis? Which vendor is this lined up for? And has TSA already decided that it will ignore the public comments on the NOS NPRM?

EDIT: Will this randomizer split up families? And how will the TSA ensure that I go to the designated lane? Will the document checker keep an eye on me? Will the randomizer keep a record of what lane I was assigned to so as to prove that I did not go to the designated lane?

Centurion Jul 12, 2013 9:42 am

^:)

Originally Posted by Darkumbra (Post 21081962)
How about a set of dice?

I could sell that to the TSA for about $75,000/airport, I'd be taking a loss of course, but anything I can do to keep the nation safe is worth it.


MSPeconomist Jul 12, 2013 9:48 am


Originally Posted by guflyer (Post 21081594)
I am actually concerned about this as it would take away the opportunity to pick lines/terminals that do not send one to body scanners. Also, I am surprised about how much money that they are willing to spend on something this simple. Could this mean that perhaps they are planning on using fewer body scanners though, and using randomizers to justify not sending everyone to them?

If it's really tamperproof by TSA employees, it would prevent them from deciding to send (young, attractive) women to the nude-o-scopes.

astroflyer Jul 12, 2013 10:50 am


Originally Posted by Darkumbra (Post 21081962)
How about a set of dice?

I could sell that to the TSA for about $75,000/airport, I'd be taking a loss of course, but anything I can do to keep the nation safe is worth it.

I can see the price of 8-sided die soaring. The poor Dungeons and Dragons players will have a shortage induced by the TSA :)

guflyer Jul 12, 2013 10:52 am

Aren't there already "randomizers" that generate pseudorandom outcomes on the WTMDs? Such as the ones that randomly say that people need to get their hands swabbed, etc.? It seems like the TSA could save money by just making the WTMD the default and using its random feature to determine who is randomly selected for something else.

DeafBlonde Jul 12, 2013 11:11 am


Originally Posted by guflyer (Post 21085477)
Aren't there already "randomizers" that generate pseudorandom outcomes on the WTMDs? Such as the ones that randomly say that people need to get their hands swabbed, etc.? It seems like the TSA could save money by just making the WTMD the default and using its random feature to determine who is randomly selected for something else.

But, but, but....That wouldn't allow them to overinflate their budget at all!! Bad idea! Bad. Bad. Bad.:rolleyes:

goalie Jul 12, 2013 11:27 am

Our friends at the TSA have come up with yet another "let's screw the pooch" toy :rolleyes:

ne52 Jul 12, 2013 11:34 am


Originally Posted by Darkumbra (Post 21082347)
If I remember correctly, when entering Mexico you did push a button, if it showed red you were searched, otherwise you walked through customs.

That one was in Spanish. This new randomizer will require completely new design, testing, and a guaranteed purchase amount. Minimal cost of course.

yandosan Jul 12, 2013 1:33 pm

When your SOP fails to impress, randomize!
Go Team Blue!

Ysitincoach Jul 12, 2013 1:34 pm

Guessing the Chertoff group manufactured a "need" for this sort of technology.

eastport Jul 12, 2013 3:30 pm


Originally Posted by astroflyer (Post 21085459)
I can see the price of 8-sided die soaring. The poor Dungeons and Dragons players will have a shortage induced by the TSA :)

Note that it's a pretty challenging problem to devise the geometry for a fair seven sided die with flat sides.

A trivial practical solution is to use a higher number die and re-roll when the number is out of bounds.

You could ask a mathematician to help you out. But any reasonable one would say "With approximately zero terrorists trying to get through the security lines, statistically none of this matters". (I had "and practically" in there, but had to remove it because we are talking about mathematicians, who can talk about 'richer infinities' with a straight face.)


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