American stranded in BKK by no-fly listing
Jul 1, 2013, 8:39 am
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American stranded in BKK by no-fly listing
Combine seemingly outrageous government behavior with good old-fashioned government incompetence and look what happens...
http://www.usatoday.com/story/travel...rdeal/2478657/
No-fly list blamed; U.S. flier stranded in Bangkok airport
LOS ANGELES (AP) - A Southern California medical student is back home after spending nearly two weeks at a Bangkok airport when he says his name turned up on a no-fly list.
Rehan Motiwala's ordeal ended Friday when he was finally granted permission to fly out of Thailand and was greeted at Los Angeles International Airport with hugs from his family, the Los Angeles Times reported.
Motiwala, a 29-year-old U.S. citizen from Pomona, was on his way from Indonesia to Los Angeles when airline staff in Bangkok refused to issue him a boarding pass for his connecting flight. U.S. and Thai authorities told him that he could not travel but didn't say why, leading him to believe he'd been placed on the U.S. government's secret no-fly list, the Times said.
After sleeping in the airport terminal for four nights, Motiwala, who is of Pakistani descent, was told that a Justice Department official had arrived from the U.S. to question him. When Motiwala declined to answer questions without a lawyer present, he was left in the custody of Thai authorities, who held him in a detention center for 10 days, he said.
LOS ANGELES (AP) - A Southern California medical student is back home after spending nearly two weeks at a Bangkok airport when he says his name turned up on a no-fly list.
Rehan Motiwala's ordeal ended Friday when he was finally granted permission to fly out of Thailand and was greeted at Los Angeles International Airport with hugs from his family, the Los Angeles Times reported.
Motiwala, a 29-year-old U.S. citizen from Pomona, was on his way from Indonesia to Los Angeles when airline staff in Bangkok refused to issue him a boarding pass for his connecting flight. U.S. and Thai authorities told him that he could not travel but didn't say why, leading him to believe he'd been placed on the U.S. government's secret no-fly list, the Times said.
After sleeping in the airport terminal for four nights, Motiwala, who is of Pakistani descent, was told that a Justice Department official had arrived from the U.S. to question him. When Motiwala declined to answer questions without a lawyer present, he was left in the custody of Thai authorities, who held him in a detention center for 10 days, he said.
Jul 1, 2013, 8:49 am
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His last name means "fat one" or something like that. Maybe the US thought they got the "big one".
This US blacklisting of US citizens abroad in conjunction with a DOJ interview is often part of a plot to force a person into becoming a compromised informant at the mercy of the government; that, or often it is part of a problem with someone whose first name is shared by well over 10 million people.
This US blacklisting of US citizens abroad in conjunction with a DOJ interview is often part of a plot to force a person into becoming a compromised informant at the mercy of the government; that, or often it is part of a problem with someone whose first name is shared by well over 10 million people.
Jul 1, 2013, 11:15 am
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More Snowden types mean more informed people who will know how governments operate in ways that don't necessarily serve the general public interest. Unfortunately what is done with the passenger blacklists is not even as systematically well documented as what is done to with the massive surveillance infrastructure that can be used for dragnets and Orwellian Animal Farmesque treatment of US person where we are all equal but the government treats some as more equal than others.
Last edited by GUWonder; Jul 1, 2013 at 11:59 am
Jul 1, 2013, 11:35 am
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A naive question not meant to be rhetorical: Why on earth would the government place an American citizen on the no-fly list when he's several thousand miles away and about to board a plane to return to the U.S., where he could presumably be questioned? 
Jul 1, 2013, 11:46 am
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Probably some combination of (a) it was someone else with the same name, and (b) they had no idea where he was at the time he was placed on the list.
Jul 1, 2013, 12:14 pm
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In 2010, after the American Civil Liberties Union challenged the no-fly list, the government said it had created a procedure to bring American citizens and permanent residents stuck overseas back to the United States regardless of their no-fly status. The goal was to "quickly resolve the travel issues of U.S. persons located abroad," a senior FBI official told a federal court at the time.
Cases like Motiwala's show how the government has failed to carry out that policy, civil rights groups say.
"The onus is really on the government to facilitate the return of this person," said Fatima Dadabhoy, an attorney with the Council on American-Islamic Relations in Los Angeles, which is representing Motiwala. "Whether or not they're on the no-fly list, they can still come home."
The group says it is handling at least two other cases of U.S. people from the L.A. area who have been barred from flying and are marooned abroad.
Cases like Motiwala's show how the government has failed to carry out that policy, civil rights groups say.
"The onus is really on the government to facilitate the return of this person," said Fatima Dadabhoy, an attorney with the Council on American-Islamic Relations in Los Angeles, which is representing Motiwala. "Whether or not they're on the no-fly list, they can still come home."
The group says it is handling at least two other cases of U.S. people from the L.A. area who have been barred from flying and are marooned abroad.
Jul 1, 2013, 3:41 pm
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We have deliberately blacklisted US citizens abroad while they were visiting/residing abroad so as to ramp up the pressure upon them. That involves us trying to question them abroad at a time when they are most interested in traveling back to the US. Whether or not this was the exact situation with Motiwala or not, this approach has been the kind of thing we have done to create "informants" or pressure others into becoming "informants"/"assets". This is one of the more routine ways we deal with US persons abroad that some in the intelligence or law enforcement community want to "turn".
Given the country has a policy and practice of authorizing the assassination of US citizens abroad, the Motiwala kind of situation seems rather benign in comparison.
Jul 3, 2013, 2:50 am
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Thank you for the Devanagari-scripted Hindi possibilities, but his US Passport has no Devanagari-scripted name for him in it and never has.
"Moti/"mota", the English transliteration/Roman Alphabet transcription is what it is and means "fat" colloquially too across a huge portion of South Asia and even parts of Central Asia.
Now, come on and sing me that Bollywood song about a tall wife, short wife, fat wife, etc.
I'll stick with the "fat" meaning of "moti/mota". He got teased about that without a doubt.
Don't you have a restaurant in your neighborhood called Moti Mahal? If it is a pearl of a restaurant, more people may become "mota/moti".
Jul 3, 2013, 4:47 am
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I'm proud of him for refusing to answer questions, as is his right. What would have been even more cool is if he could have somehow signed on as a deck hand on a container ship destined for the U.S.
I'm left wondering why the Thai authorities kept him in a detention center for ten days. When does the "no fly" list become the "you can't cruise around the country trying to find another way to get home" list?
I'm left wondering why the Thai authorities kept him in a detention center for ten days. When does the "no fly" list become the "you can't cruise around the country trying to find another way to get home" list?
Jul 3, 2013, 4:57 am
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Here's an interesting quote from the linked "Los Angeles Times" article:
According to the account offered by Motiwala's lawyers, when he declined to talk with U.S. officials without an attorney, they tried to bully him. The officials told him that returning to the U.S. was a privilege, not a right. One sarcastically suggested traveling to Afghanistan instead. When they finally left, the legal attache told Thai authorities: "We don't care what happens. Do whatever you want to him."
Jul 4, 2013, 10:54 am
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Wonder why it took 4 days for someone to show up to question him? Several of our 3-letter agencies have (public) country offices in BKK (much less the likely clandestine ones, too); they ought to have been able to send someone over within hours. I suspect the outcome would have been the same given the stupid no-fly-list and his correct refusal to answer questions, though.
Last edited by exerda; Jul 4, 2013 at 8:35 pm
Jul 4, 2013, 6:44 pm
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To show up at a US POE should work after avoiding US airspace and perhaps that of surrender monkey countries too. Container ship crew or stowaway is possible.
Last edited by GUWonder; Jul 4, 2013 at 6:52 pm